How bad is my Sprint?

[James467]

James467 wrote:
Quote:
Just put any cheap 20/50 in it to run in, it's only gonna be in there for 1000 miles max, longevity and viscosity maintainance is not really an issue!


Steve, I'm curious, as you know I have a lot of respect for your views but why not use a specific running in oil? Millers can be bought for £30ish for 5L if you shop around.


This issue was a fews weeks ago on fb page also. My comment there and here will be why paying more for very cheap oil when you can buy it also cheap.

Jeroen

I was always told that the running in oils contained more zinc to protect components during the first start up.

[SprintMWU773V]

You don't want an oil with loads of ZDDP in it to start off with else the thing will never wear in.

[James467]

Good point Mark

http://www.millersoils.co.uk/pdf/automotive/ZDDP.pdf

These oils will not present a problem in your new Ford Focus,
but will cause serious problems in your Cosworth Ford DFV or
Lotus Twincam Ford

Or Triumph Slant 4!!

[soe8m]

All fairytales. Long story.... Short version.

Zinc was in all oil till about '90 because catalyc converters go bad by zinc. Like all ohv engines and so Triumph engines that were running in 1990 and had their zinc period and still run today with all the same parts on the same place do not need zinc now. That is why these engines from the 1990 did and do run still ok with the zinc less oil in 2001, 2009 and still in 2016.

A overhauled engine with new parts do need zinc. That the current valve lifters are of a less material you can also take in mind.

During start up there is no oil. I use a very sticky grease that contains very much zink and does stay on the lobes for about ten minutes. In an ohv engine the cam does need some splash but there isnt the very first minute. This grease is from joe gibs racing. A company that does v8 nascar etc. but all the v8's in the US of A do have ohv and a camshaft somewhere low so the zinc problem was much bigger there. Mr.Joe gibbs made a fantastic grease.

The running in is for 97,6% the rings have to wear to the cilinderwall. You can achieve that by using very bad oil that makes the engine wear a lot. If you do not do this and have good oil the rings don't bed in and you will have an oil consuming engine. So buy the worst oil you can get.

I did work 10 years at europe's biggest classic car company and consumed about 7000 liter oil a year. My job there was keep the guy's at work, pick the nice jobs for myself and the parts. When it was about 2-3 camshafts a month replacing from cars that were bought and sold with a recent overhauled engines i started to wonder. First had the camshafts checked for hardness and all was ok. Starting to read and discovered the big problem and asking myself what oil do we use? I had about 10 different classic car oils tested in a lab and the rennomated classic car oils were not really classic car oils. It say's classic because it has "classic" viscosity but not the right amount of zinc. One party i did invite (ELF) did take their classic oil from the market in NL because the testresults were bad and different form their own spec sheet. I think they had it tested too of the record and decides that few cans a year for the classic owners we do not want to take the risk. But you can still buy Castrol.

The outcome was most classic oils have too less zinc for being classic and the spec sheets were different than what is really was. The good thing was that bardahl classic oil was very good. So from then it was bardahl about 7000 liter a year. But not having many choices and the old ferrari's needed 10w60 to keep the oilpressure gauge a bit up there is an alternative. ZDDPlus. Also an American additive. A very concentrated zinc additive what you can use in combination with any oil. Had it tested mixed with "normal" oil and results ok.

Customers happy, I happy and the boss happy not having warranty camshaft replacements anymore.

So the conclusion is classic oils are a waste money if you think you protect your engine more than a decent brand normal 20w50. If you want your zinc there is Bardahl 15w50 classic that is a very good classic oil. Using your own oil there is zddplus to mix. running in grease you take joe gibs running in grease. And not be tempted to use any other lubies because it doesn not work whatever famous brand is on it.

But again just my experience.

Jeroen

[soe8m]

You don't want an oil with loads of ZDDP in it to start off with else the thing will never wear in.

You need the normal amount what was in in the early day's but as a slant has no lifters it is less needed. Running in an ohv without zinc is ruining it in.

Jeroen

[GTS290N]

..... Running in an ohv without zinc is ruining it in.

Jeroen

Jeroen, I just LOVe your English. Brilliant.

[Jon Tilson]

So of I understand Jeroen correctly you need lots of ZDDP on your cam lobes but not on your rings when running in.

How best do you achieve that? Or does the ZDDP not stop your rings bedding in but just protect the cam lobes?

You certainly want cam lobes protecting on a Sprint, and I would say pretty much at any mileage.....

Jonners

[soe8m]

Jonners the only reason you need zinc is for cam wear. The most wear is on badly cam lubricating ohv engines like all the most older engines are. The sticky grease is lubrication during start up and the first few minutes running because there is no oil yet. The grease is then THE lubrication of the lobes and has to contain zinc. The new overhauled engines who's camshafts do fail within 10.000km or earlier had their damage in the first minute and then it's a question of kilometers when they are going to fail. When a car was bought and was running on less cilinders than sparkplugs it was first check the ignition and then take the cam cover off to see if all the valves were opening. Lot's of TR's. Take of the head and take out the grille and you can replace the camshaft. Rover v8's also and the in Holand poplular Volvo's with their B engines. GM dealers in the US had their own additive for customers with older cars and before the zddplus was on the market that was mostly used. The zddp problem is also the reason why all the newer USA v8's did become roller lifters by the factory the last 20 years.

I use synthetic oil in my triumphs and do add zddplus. Only the volvo gets Bardahl. As more engines over the years my wifes 2500 had zddplus added to very cheap oil for running in and it did run in ok. I don't take any risks and won't run any without "normal" zinc levels but i think that a slant what has done a few thousants after an overhaul or one that never had an overhaul can do without. The lubrication is ok and the stress on the cam is not that much. But it's on the shelf in the shed so why not put it in my slants. I do not like oilchanges and have less contamination by the LPG so it's a long lasting stock zddplus. The volvo does the oilchanges itself.

Jeroen

[shaunroche]

Ahem, so, 20/50 it is then!

The running in is for 97,6% the rings have to wear to the cilinderwall. You can achieve that by using very bad oil that makes the engine wear a lot. If you do not do this and have good oil the rings don't bed in and you will have an oil consuming engine. So buy the worst oil you can get.

Should have read this a bit closer mind.....crap oil I can do!

[shaunroche]

It's been all about the rear bumper today.

Re - chromed bits back from the platers etc.

They did look like this....



...but now....



Cleaned up and resprayed the bumper irons too...



...nailed it all together....



...and after some further nailing...

[shaunroche]

Additionally, as there is a fatigue split in the bulkhead caused by the throttle pedal, I decided to create a load spreading plate with a plate on the engine side and a plate with the modified throttle pedal welded to it.

Super Al the Fabricator decided to weld an extra strengthening bar to the throttle cable a la Group 4 Escort....so he reckons!

Everything has a liberal application of sealant which will be removed shortly.....

[shaunroche]

So, this weekend...rear bumper on, side exiting exhaust cobbled together, ready for the hanger brkts to be welded on and the outlet pipe positioning, shortening and then welding....I even popped the Minilites on to see what they looked like before sending them off for refurb....nothing stopping the big switch on now!

[soe8m]

This is for me the most frustating topic to watch. My replica gp2 sprint is going to have the same colour scheme as yours and as the SOE8M. About 10 crates with genuine ST parts are for ten years on my attic and will be for 5 more years i think. Time time time................

Jeroen

[Carledo]

Time and money are the twin curses of the home restorer.

Like peace and freedom they are almost mutually exclusive!

Steve

[Galileo]

Time and money are the twin curses of the home restorer.

Like peace and freedom they are almost mutually exclusive!

Steve

Never a truer word said!