Sprint which clutch?

[Galileo]

Used both the cover and friction plate (cover plate about 4.5 kilos as I recall) with a release bearing (GRB209D) from Chris Witor. As to if there was any improvement in rev pick-up, it is hard to say as there was a gap of nearly 4 months between drives and I did a heap of other work at the same time that could of affected things, such as removing the engine fan, but the pedal feel is good (even with something still amiss with my hydraulics, maybe wrong slave) with a clean and positive drive take up.

[sprint95m]

Only had a 2k on it so far, but a Sachs 3000 366 001 is what I used.

This is interesting, did you use the whole Saab clutch kit or just the cover plate?
I understand the Saab clutch is lighter than the Triumph, do you notice any change in the way the engine revs climb and fall?

It is only the lightweight Saab clutch cover you can use (because Saab input shafts have a different spline to any Triumph).

The difference is very noticeable in an early 1850 but is bound to be less so in either a Sprint, TR7 or later 1850HL,
given the heavier flywheel used in the latter three.
(After a few drives you don't notice the difference as it is taken for granted.)

A properly installed electric water pump also makes a significant difference.
You could further improve matters by fitting a lightweight high output alternator.

An early 1850 will happily pull away from 20mph in fourth gear.


Ian.

[Galileo]

Yeah, I'm such a liar, friction plate was from Chris Witor too, I only used Sachs cover, I should check my receipts better, I've slept and drank beer since I put it all together. http://www.chriswitor.com/proddetail.php?prod=GCP140RM

EWP use is overpriced nonsense in my opinionated mind, except for one reason, you have converted to crank sensor electronic ignition and your jack shaft is jack shafted. Maybe if you had a full highly strung race/rally prepped car too. Internet forums are great places for opinions, and they are free of charge too!

[Carledo]

Yeah, I'm such a liar, friction plate was from Chris Witor too, I only used Sachs cover, I should check my receipts better, I've slept and drank beer since I put it all together. http://www.chriswitor.com/proddetail.php?prod=GCP140RM

EWP use is overpriced nonsense in my opinionated mind, except for one reason, you have converted to crank sensor electronic ignition and your jack shaft is jack shafted. Maybe if you had a full highly strung race/rally prepped car too. Internet forums are great places for opinions, and they are free of charge too!

You still need the jackshaft to drive the oil pump, even if you remove the distributor and water pump from the equation. But it might last longer under the much reduced load.

Steve

[tony g]

You need the distributor to drive the oil pump

Tony

[Carledo]

You need the distributor to drive the oil pump

Tony

Well you need the distributor driven gear to run off the jackshaft and drive the oil pump. But you no longer need the body with bobweights, baseplate, points condenser, rotor, cap etc.
What do folk who have gone EDIS do about this? Just leave the empty shell in the engine to keep the oil in? Not my idea of an elegant solution!

Steve

[Galileo]

You need the distributor to drive the oil pump

Tony

Pah, oil, minor detail! Anyway, my hypothetical jack shafted set-up has had Aunt Maude's bequeathed Mocal electric oil pump fitted!

[Galileo]

Steve, Fit a distributor blanking plug, you can get them from triggerwheels.

[Carledo]

Steve, Fit a distributor blanking plug, you can get them from triggerwheels.

Ah! Someone has thought of it already. But a simple blank will not do as the gear and the shaft it is on need to be located in the block, suspended in place by bearings to keep the gears in mesh and the oil pump drive shaft in line, then, most importantly something needs to hold this assembly down in the block (but not too tightly)
My thought was to simply saw through the dizzy body AND the shaft at the gap between the mounting plate and the bit of body that holds the bobweights and points baseplate. This SHOULD work as there are bearings and seals in this lower section and the bottom part of the body will hold the gear down. Fitting it shouldn't be too much trouble either since it no longer needs to be timed up, in fact the whole jackshaft assembly no longer needs to be timed up. Finish off with a push fit plastic blank to keep the dirt and muck off the exposed top of the dizzy drive shaft.

Steve

Or, of course, you could spend a lot less money than on this hypothetical "developed" slant and fit a reliable, economical, fuel injected Vauxhall engine.

[tom16v]

I am planning on going full EFI on XYK Steve.
I have been thinking about this. I was wondering about using an 1850 dizzy to chop about hough as the Sprint ones seem to be getting rarer these days. I wasn't quite sure that some oil wouldn't escape up the shaft though?

[sprint95m]

On this very forum there are details of properly engineered slant four distributor blank,
it was made by one of our Dutch friends. Which one eludes me!


I think a Sprint with well sorted EFI and a type 9 gearbox would be a very good car.






Ian.

[Carledo]

I am planning on going full EFI on XYK Steve.
I have been thinking about this. I was wondering about using an 1850 dizzy to chop about though as the Sprint ones seem to be getting rarer these days. I wasn't quite sure that some oil wouldn't escape up the shaft though?

I've been thinking about it too, though in a rather more abstract sense, since I don't have a Sprint engine to do it to and probably never will!

But I like an engineering challenge to keep my poor age raddled brain active so I found myself considering this one. I agree about the 44D4 dizzy getting rarer, but I think there are old worn ones about that would serve for chopping up, i'm not sanguine about the 1850 one being useful for this purpose, with it's lower baseplate, the shaft bearings might not be enough. But regarding the oil question, my parts book shows 1 or possibly 2 rubber O rings on the shaft within the "keep it" section of the dizzy, when you think about it, there has to be SOMETHING there or the dizzy would fill up with oil. Whilst I have actually seen this happen in one or two rare and extreme cases, new O rings solves it. So I don't think oil loss will be a problem, I was more concerned about keeping outside dirt from getting into the bearings.
It's high time someone had a proper go at EFI on this engine, I have long thought the SUs are more of a curse than a blessing, they were the (almost) best of a bad lot at the time of production, but in this post silicone chip era, electronic management and EFI makes so much more sense in terms of reliability, economy AND performance. And probably engine longevity too.

Steve

[cliftyhanger]

Mike Weaver has 'squirted his sprint with jenveys. Have a look through his blog:
http://club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/blog ... log=489327

[tom16v]

Would you need a bit of shaft sticking out the top and a circlip to stop the shaft dropping down the oil pump drive into the engine and the gears coming out of mesh Steve?
I had the mad idea of trying to fit a pair of roller bearings to the shaft to improve location and reduce friction too. I guess that would probably make it leak oil though.
It's usually best to keep these things simple if possible.
I have a set of 45mil bike throttle bodies all set up with dcoe spacing and adaptors for a Weber manifold. I'm currently part way through modifying an engine for them to go on.
I was going to go with a wide ratio od box with third od in place of 4th rather than switching to type9 or lt77 though. I realise it will be heavier and less efficient, but with an uprated od it should easily go north of 60 in second and should give a lovely close set of ratios.
Once I get the right oil in my gripper diff and get rid of the warped disc on the trackerjack kit I think the chassis is now ready to take more power.

[Carledo]

Would you need a bit of shaft sticking out the top and a circlip to stop the shaft dropping down the oil pump drive into the engine and the gears coming out of mesh Steve?
I had the mad idea of trying to fit a pair of roller bearings to the shaft to improve location and reduce friction too. I guess that would probably make it leak oil though.
It's usually best to keep these things simple if possible.
I have a set of 45mil bike throttle bodies all set up with dcoe spacing and adaptors for a Weber manifold. I'm currently part way through modifying an engine for them to go on.
I was going to go with a wide ratio od box with third od in place of 4th rather than switching to type9 or lt77 though. I realise it will be heavier and less efficient, but with an uprated od it should easily go north of 60 in second and should give a lovely close set of ratios.
Once I get the right oil in my gripper diff and get rid of the warped disc on the trackerjack kit I think the chassis is now ready to take more power.

I THINK there is a shoulder in the block that stops the dizzy gear dropping too far, have to check that!
The throttle bodies should do the trick, though you may lose a bit from having the injectors so far from the valves. But with the Sprint engine you don't have the luxury of using a NA spec TR7 injection manifold such as Ian was contemplating for his 1850.
Jenveys are just up the road from me in Bridgnorth, they seem confident that their way is the way to go, they are even making a "fake Weber" which is actually a throttle body with concealed injectors so the car looks "old school" even if it actually isn't!

The gearbox question is one with no easy answer, the stock box, as you said, is very heavy and not particularly strong without spending a fortune and there are not many ratio choices available either. The LT77, I wouldn't even think about, it doesn't really fit the car, is unreliable at best and has some downright weird features like pumped oil. The Type 9 is probably the best choice, giving a wide range of intermediate ratios, good back up, strength, rifle bolt precision and it's simple to work on. But it needs an expensive mod on the shift mechanism to get the gearlever to come out in the right place on a Dolly.
Personally, I love my Omega box, it's short, light and strong. But ratio choice is next to non existent and the standard ratios are quite widely spaced. Another possibility that no-one seems to have tried so far is the Volvo family gearboxes, these are legendarily tough and pretty compact.
A locker diff is on my want list, but price is the bugbear for me! I'm hoping someone will one day give me a rotten Sprint for pennies that "just happens" to have one fitted!
I really don't know HOW you managed to warp a TJ disc, I've pounded the living daylights out of my TJ brakes at Coombe and elsewhere without a sniff of trouble, however, what's done is done, I daresay Jon will prep you another disc and if, for any reason, he can't, it's not too hard that a decent machine shop cant cope with it if they have the new disc and a hub to match it to. I have the Mintex part number for the disc somewhere if you need it.

Steve