The perfect modern (ish) grand tourer

[uphill racer]

Hi all, a very happy Christmas for yesterday and the best of wishes for the year to come.

While independently watching Casino Royale the other night, Ms Uphill and I (we don't live together as yet) both opined on the number of classy joints in Europe and beyond that we would both love to visit, and I suggested we plan our own Grand Tour. A stylish, cultural escapade that might compare with elements of the Club Triumph (forgive me) Ten Countries Run, allowing us to partake of such civilised experiences as (but of course not limited to) a real pizza on a terrazza overlooking Lake Como, and coffee at a street cafe in Venice.

Clearly a suitable vehicle is required. My 16-year-old Fabia estate is not really respectable these days, Ms Uphill's Golf is too small inside and a bit - well - Golfy. The hillclimb and rally cars are of course ruled out instantly and the Toledo is not really suitable for reasons that will rapidly become apparent.

We don't want to plan the life out of the trip, a bit of spontaneity will add to the overall experience. So if we arrive in village/small town XXX and find that there really is no room at the inn, and that the stable isn't particularly salubrious (thankfully Ms Uphill isn't - you know - but did you like what I did there?) then the ability to spend the night in the car without feeling like a pair of down-and-outs will be good. Which rules the Toledo out, notwithstanding that it wouldn't really have been a realistic proposition anyway...

So the ideal vehicle has to be stylish, a reliable, reasonably economical long distance mile-muncher, with enough room for two average-sized adults to sleep in the back. Having enjoyed a glut of Top Gear challenges over the weekend, where they have on occasion turned the back of each vehicle into a personal sleep capsule, I'm rather taken with the idea of a cleverly integrated bed platform with stowage underneath, with of course the Egyptian cotton and wood panelled drinks cabinet etc. Less sure about the outside loo seat though


So, assuming you have bothered to read this far (well done and thank you!!)...

What would be the ideal car? A friend suggested a Volvo 700 series estate, so I've decided he isn't my friend any more. "BMW 5-series estate" lacks a certain, shall we say, "class" Jag X Type estate, maybe?? I will be wearing a linen suit and panama, of course...

[yorkshire_spam]

A friend of mine (who has much deeper bank accounts than I do!) did something along these lines in his Maserati Quattroporte, although that misses the target badly on the "sleep in the boot" and the "reasonably economical" targets!

If we were to do it I'd like to use something like a GT6, but that might not be modern(ish) enough nor roomey enough.
(The Spitfire has done good service on 2x10CR for us - but packing everything in spares, tools, clothes etc. is a bit of an art!)

I think to fit your criteria your choice of a Jag X-type estate is pretty close to the best choice!
If you must consider a Volvo make it a T5 or something!
Or how about a Mondeo ST220 estate? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2004-53-FORD ... Sw~vpaFMrQ

[Carledo]

I think you can rule out the ST220 on the "reasonably economical" front, they aren't!

On the face of it, you really need a diesel for economy and some sort of station wagon for that unexpected night's kip.

So I have to go along with the Jaaaaag, the (Peugeot derived?) V6 Diesel is a real gem, with tons of effortless grunt yet still gives a reasonable frugality, interior appointment is predictably lush and very comfortable for a long stint at the wheel and at the moment, values are in the bargain basement. Auto's are much easier to source and MUCH easier to do a few thousand miles in - and the torque will more than compensate for the lack of stick stirring ability. And it has RWD! The only possible downside is that the load bay, even with seats folded, is not exactly cavernous. But assuming mrs U is not 6'6" you should be OK!

A BMW will be too hard riding (besides the fact that it's a Beemer anyway), an Audi will drive you nuts with understeer, The Volvo is nice as a petrol auto but not much else, the diesel is unrefined and the manual box is a turkey. A high output diesel Octavia wagon might fit the bill, but is a bit uninspiring. And there's not much else out there that is even worth considering.

If I was going, i'd look for a tidy Triumph 2500S auto estate with PAS, but that's me being my usual eccentric self, TBH, the Jag would probably be cheaper!

Steve

[xvivalve]

Alfa 159 Sportwagon Q4 3.2 v6 would be ideal for a trip like that...oh, wait a minute!

[uphill racer]

I think you can rule out the ST220 on the "reasonably economical" front, they aren't!

On the face of it, you really need a diesel for economy and some sort of station wagon for that unexpected night's kip.

So I have to go along with the Jaaaaag, the (Peugeot derived?) V6 Diesel is a real gem, with tons of effortless grunt yet still gives a reasonable frugality, interior appointment is predictably lush and very comfortable for a long stint at the wheel and at the moment, values are in the bargain basement. Auto's are much easier to source and MUCH easier to do a few thousand miles in - and the torque will more than compensate for the lack of stick stirring ability. And it has RWD! The only possible downside is that the load bay, even with seats folded, is not exactly cavernous. But assuming mrs U is not 6'6" you should be OK!

A BMW will be too hard riding (besides the fact that it's a Beemer anyway), an Audi will drive you nuts with understeer, The Volvo is nice as a petrol auto but not much else, the diesel is unrefined and the manual box is a turkey. A high output diesel Octavia wagon might fit the bill, but is a bit uninspiring. And there's not much else out there that is even worth considering.

If I was going, i'd look for a tidy Triumph 2500S auto estate with PAS, but that's me being my usual eccentric self, TBH, the Jag would probably be cheaper!

Steve

Hi Steve,

RWD? You sure? The early ones were 4x4 but then they brought in the FWD versions - I didn't think any of them were RWD... Totally agree the verdicts on the others. I did think of one of the Big Six estates, but reckoned I couldn't afford a good one, the Jaaag would be cheap by comparison

Thanks all for the responses, I'm quite liking the idea of the Jaaaag. It is probably yhe hardest to find - an estate car with a bit of class and style - but I think the Jaaag does it. Honest John, Autocar and one other site (can't recall which, now - on second glass of champagne now) all liked them, though the general recommendation was go for post 2005 but avoid the last year or so as the workers were on notice and they sat around a lot (the cars, I mean, but...)

[James467]

No no no no no! YOU ARE ALL WRONG!!

You need a Range Rover, a late L322. The early ones are getting cheap and are starting to be owned by pikeys and aspiring 'hard men' drug dealer types, you know, they type who have watched Snatch a few too many times. The late ones have more style to them.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified ... New&page=1

Or the latest L405 if you can afford it. Stylish, comfortable, a mile muncher, cruses effortlessly all day!

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified ... 012&page=2

Or if your pockets arent that deep, a Discovery 4, does the same as the Rangie but for a couple of pennies less!

[Mahesh]

Unfortunately your requirements preclude most vehicles, especially the stylish requirement coupled with practicality and reliability.

Only two choices come to mind, a custom pickup (Hilux type) or a stretch Merc, the six door type used by funeral directors (not the hearse !), respray to any colour but black advisable.

[new to this]

how about rover 75

Dave

[Galileo]

how about rover 75

Dave

Fails the first hurdle, stylish it is not, looks like someone badly photoshopped the cars arse on!

[cliftyhanger]

Having weighed up what you are planning, I would politely suggest do the next 10CR in the toledo. OK, fit a TR7 lump first.....

Really, the hotel situation is OK,there is no need to over complicate it. Either that or use a small camper van (I have seen a few galaxy type conversions) and make it a campervan trip. Not too silly,there are loads of free campervan places to stay, certainly in France and I am guessing other European countries too? (some research should reveal all). They even have free electrical hookups etc.

But I would get a decent touring car and book a series of hotels (we used one of the hotel booking sites for the 10CR, and made sure they could be cancelled with 24hrs notice if things went belly up)

Car of choice? Well, our Spitfire of course, but a bit compact for some. No slouch either
But there is something fantastic about the Alps and an open top car. Budget choice MX5....

[dollyman]

Why not tow a caravan with the Toledo? Sorted

[new to this]

how about rover 75

Dave

Fails the first hurdle, stylish it is not, looks like someone badly photoshopped the cars arse on!

I take it your not a fan then never had the estate myself but they do look the part

Dave

[SprintMWU773V]

My boss has a 2010 Rangie, lovely V8 supercharged version. Lovely to drive but I have to say it is not a car I would want to have to repair which he does a lot. The parts are expensive and it's difficult to get to anything. If you pay someone else to do it then of course you're paying by the hour and those hours soon mount up!

Sounds like you need a van. Plenty of room for 2, plus bed, can tow and there's loads around! By van of course I don't mean a panel van but a nice VW Transporter or similar. Very car like to drive and even have a certain amount of badge snobbery being a VW. I know a few people who have them and they love the ability to go off and then if required spend the night in the van.

[Carledo]

how about rover 75

Dave

75 estate prices are rising fast, especially for the desirable diesel model. A lot died before the parts backup was sorted and they spent a long time in the banger doldrums so rarity is a factor too. Other than that, they are well equipped, spacious and, I think, quite pretty, the 2.0 diesel is virtually unbreakable. Again, i'm not a fan of the manual, dual mass flywheel on a still rather heavy clutch, a relatively weak box and TOTALLY inaccesible clutch hydraulics (ask me how I know) make the auto a sensible choice.

With reference to the Jaaag, I may have been thinking of the S type, rather than the "Mondeo in a tart's dress" X type, which WAS mainly FWD or 4WD. TBH, not a fan of either, FWD and a V6 are a recipe for understeer and the 4WD is complicated, if a nice thing to have for the odd bit of snow on the Alpine passes.

Steve

[Bumpa]

In the MG Car Club circles that I inhabit occasionally, the MG versions of all the Rover saloons (ZR, ZS and ZT) are becoming collectable. Having had some experience of a ZT-T estate with the V6 engine, I have to say I was impressed. Quiet, comfortable, spacious, nicely equipped and quite fast too. Makes a good tow car.