How bouncy should a Dolly be?

[Bumpa]

As some of you will know, I have just got my first Dolomite (an 1850HL) back on the road. Never having driven one before I am finding the ride very comfortable but rather soft. It wallows a bit on corners and does a nose-dive when braking moderately. Each corner of the car is easy to push down with my hand but it doesn't seem to bounce after the inital rebound. However I am wondering if the dampers and/or springs might be shot. How should a standard Dolly ride?

If I should replace them, I don't want a performance orientated set-up but wish to make it a comfortable road car. I fancy Gaz adjustable dampers as I have them on my MGB GT, but is it worth spending even more money and getting height adjustable perches? And what about the springs? Part of me thinks they should be OK even though they are 40 years old. How can they go wrong if they aren't broken?

Finally, who is the best supplier to deal with?

Thanks, Mike.

[yorkshire_spam]

I'm going through much the same process with Binny right now. I'm fitting used Spax shocks and "unknown" springs (already on the shocks) to see how they handle.
The CT Border Raiders run was a clear demonstration that she's rolling a bit too much in the corners etc. I don't really want a stiff "race" setup, but I can't do the RBRR in her as she is - I'll end up sea sick when I'm in the back trying to rest.

I've set the front spax shocks to the minimum damping to see how I get on (I've previously been told the lowest setting is close to, but a little stiffer than standard, whether this is true or not is a different matter)

[sprint95m]

I think it shouldn't be bouncy at all, Mike.

This kind of thing is nigh impossible to diagnose, I am thinking the best advice will be to seek
out another owner to compare cars?
From experience, I would replace the suspension bushes first and only after then think about uprated shocks.




Ian.

[Bumpa]

I think it shouldn't be bouncy at all, Mike.

This kind of thing is nigh impossible to diagnose, I am thinking the best advice will be to seek
out another owner to compare cars?
From experience, I would replace the suspension bushes first and only after then think about uprated shocks.

Ian.

Hmm. Dolomites aren't exactly thick on the ground in Ayrshire. I have never seen another in 30+ years of living here. Since getting mine on the road I have been stopped in car parks by people telling me they didn't think there were any left. They all loved the car, by the way.

I don't really understand why knackered bushes would make it bouncy, although I'm willing to accept that the 40 year old bushes are probably not at their best. Neither, probably, are 40 year old dampers!

[Galileo]

If the corner bounce test passes the once only for the shocks then I'd be looking at the springs. Maybe someone who has a newer setup could be cajoled into doing a measure before and after of the ride height after putting a known weight in the car? That would be an easy repeatable check for suspension squishness?

[cliftyhanger]

Following from Sams post about "Border Raiders" we had to count how many teeth we lost, being in a spitfire with stiff front suspension (and a new, but not very good rear spring, about to be returned as the spring bushes largely collapsed in the 1100 miles!)
But teh Toledo has always suffered with boingy suspension, despite quality new shocks, tried new springs and so on. I think it is the nature of the beast, and I currently have some uprated front springs, but they are a tad high. The rears are now std 1500 dolomite, and still boingy (exactly the same rate as Toledo springs, but 1" taller uncompressed) Some more, hopefully sprint or 1850 springs, on their way. With the RBRR looming, and me he lightest of the crew of 3 at 12st, we don't want it bottoming out everywhere!

So, I reckon 175lb springs all round may be a good setup?

[going_downhill]

My 1850 was on some original blue dampers and standard springs up untill last year. It was exactly as you describe, i could push down each corner easily. Also, if i sat on the boot edge with the boot open the rear end would go through quite a lot of travel! Height adjustable Gaz dampers with standard rate sprint springs should be the improvement your seeking. Worked for me.

[Bumpa]

Standard rate sprint springs? All my research tells me that all Dollys from 1300 to Sprint had the same springs. Do you mean uprated springs, which several suppliers stock?

[cliftyhanger]

I "think" springs are rated at 140lb all round. Allegedly. But Toledo and 1500 springs are indeed same rate but different lengths. And I reckon there are differences in front springs too. But that is only gut feeling... My method of testing springs is to measure how much they compress with me standing on them, but that is pretty accurate for comparison purposes.

Height adjustable shocks? not sure how they can affect anything except ride height? Certainly not spring rate (unless overcompresses the spring, which would give very odd handling/ride)

[cleverusername]

My 1500HL was my first experience of an older car and the ride handling do take some getting use to. It does wallow a bit, dive under braking and it could take no were near the amount of speed into corners I was use to. To fair every car I have driven has had fully independent suspension, an old Xantia had absurd amounts of grip.

It could be worn bushes, springs and shocks, but I am converting mine to a Sprint and have stripped down allot of the suspension as a result. I am yet to find anything that is worn. It is a car from the 70's, based on a 60's design, with a live beam rear axle. I don't think it is going to handle that well without some modification.

[Carledo]

My 1850 was on some original blue dampers and standard springs up untill last year. It was exactly as you describe, i could push down each corner easily. Also, if i sat on the boot edge with the boot open the rear end would go through quite a lot of travel! Height adjustable Gaz dampers with standard rate sprint springs should be the improvement your seeking. Worked for me.

This is exactly what I have used on my Carledo. Being a 2 door, (and minus bumper, rear seat and spare wheel) the tail is extremely light, stiff springs make it literally hop round corners, I tried it on used Sprint stock coilovers all round, the only deflection the rear did when leaned on was the tyres squashing! And the front was much too high! Now has Gaz height and pressure adjustable shox all round with new stock Sprint front springs and the original old Toledo rears. Its not TOO stiff for comfort and copes well with the lousy local roads, but it can still do this with panache! :-



Steve

[going_downhill]

Standard rate sprint springs? All my research tells me that all Dollys from 1300 to Sprint had the same springs. Do you mean uprated springs, which several suppliers stock?

This is the exact kit i purchased and fitted to an 1850 (which is slightly lighter than a Sprint which these springs are optimized for). Rimmers do uprated springs or standard rate springs. The standard springs included in the kit below will feel a fair bit stiffer than your 40 year old spring and damper setup but they are not to crashy and are still more than useable on pot holed roads. This kit is adjustable in both terms of dampening and ride height, so you can make the dampers the most compliant if this is a concern. Mine are somewhere towards the middle.

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-RT1274GAZ

Sorry, I think I missed getting the point across that Rimmers standard spring kits for these coloivers are stiffer than original standard springs fitted to the Dolly range.

[Carledo]

I don't know how much of the information on spring rates and free lengths is fact and how much is urban myth!

"Everybody knows" that stock Sprint (and probably 1850) FRONT springs are 140lb............So it's probably not true!

As for the others, rears for slant models and ALL the rest, your guess is as good as mine!

What is FACT, is that Toledos and SOME OHV Dolomites were originally fitted with front springs (and topmounts and shox) with a smaller coil DIAMETER (by 1/2")

When I was building the Carledo, I tried to find out the Toledo's factory spring rates and dimensions, as a start point for modifications, this endeavour was TOTALLY unsuccessful. Even the Factory workshop manual, a mine of information and data, is completely silent on the subject! Other models Factory manuals are equally silent.

I have umpteen pairs of front springs around me from several different models and no 2 pairs have the same free length ( lengths sometimes vary from side to side too!) There is a DEFINITE and pronounced difference in poundage between Sprint and Toledo REAR springs as witnessed by my own experience, but I have no figures for either. And oddly, though the body weights are considerably different, there is only 1 spring listed in the factory parts book for the rear of the Toledo, whether 2 door or 4 door)

So there it is! We have very few FACTS and an awful lot of conjecture! But a study of parts lists will at least give us an idea of how many different part numbers exist for the springs on the various models, which will be a clue. I have parts lists for 73 Toledo and 75 Sprint, i'll look those up and post them later today, if anyone has lists for the other models, perhaps they can also post the relevant spring part numbers and we'll see a bit more of the picture!

Steve

[Carledo]

Ok, so a list so far.

For UK Sprint front springs, there appears to be only 1 listed for standard cars and that is TKC 0768

For UK Sprint rear springs, there appears to be only 1 listed for standard cars and that is 218324

There is also a fairly bewildering choice of LHD and heavy duty front springs and heavy duty spring/shock packages for both front and rear (only 1 rear spring though, STD, HD or whatever) These seem to be comm number dependent, with breaks at VA 3748 and VA 9884. And that is only up to September 75 when my list was published, later models may have more choices!

The Toledo is MUCH simpler, no heavy duty or LHD options, in fact, no options at all,

Front Springs are 217448 and rears are 217976.

That's all I have, over to you folks now!

Steve

[captain_70s]

My 1300 used to bounce badly due to worn out shocks, is much tighter now they've been replaced (just standard ones from Rimmers).

It is still quite soft compared to a modern car but not to the point where it feels unstable. It does pitch forward a fair amount under braking and roll in corners but watching old 70s TV shows I suspect that's just how cars were. It certainly seems to hold the road well despite the movement of the body.

My 1850 always felt "tighter" in the suspension dept, although it's not been on the road since the 1300's shocks were replaced so I can't say if they're now similar.

(I'm also not too far away if you'd like to compare to another Dolomite!)