Sorn

[Steve28]

When i bought my sprint which has been off the road since 1989 i received a letter requesting that i need to sorn it, so i did as asked and put it on sorn and received an email stating its on sorn but on the DVLA reg check its still states as last taxed 1989 so where is there a record of it being on sorn ?

steve

[xvivalve]

The letter you receive is automatically issued. Because the car was already off the road when SoRN came into being, and legislation cannot be applied retrospectively, there is no need to SoRN a car that has been off the road since before 1998. Your car is not on SoRN, it is untaxed.

[Steve28]

Cheers Alun

[Carledo]

When I bought my Sprint in 2012, untaxed since 97, it came without a V5 so I applied for one, when I recieved it, (8 days later, surprisingly quick work by DVLA) it was accompanied by a demand that I tax or SORN it IMMEDIATELY! So I SORNed it, and, as far as I can remember, renewed the SORN a couple of times before it stopped being renewed annually and just ran till changed, circa 2014. As you should also have needed to do!

However i've just checked mine on the Gov website and it also shows as untaxed since 1st Nov 1997, no mention of SORN.

I can't see that it makes a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things, unless, when you DO come to TAX it, (free or not) they try to fine you for not having it SORNed all these years!

Regardless of the fact that it's nowhere near road ready yet, I've been tempted for some time to put my Sprint on my Traders insurance (which costs nothing) pop down the PO and declare it Historic and MOT exempt and see what happens! (I know it's not REALLY suitable for MOT exemption, but by the time it actually gets driven in anger, it will have one!) It will probably be easier to update the V5 to incorporate the details of the new powertrain on a vehicle which is already "on the road".

Steve

[cleverusername]

When I bought my Sprint in 2012, untaxed since 97, it came without a V5 so I applied for one, when I recieved it, (8 days later, surprisingly quick work by DVLA) it was accompanied by a demand that I tax or SORN it IMMEDIATELY! So I SORNed it, and, as far as I can remember, renewed the SORN a couple of times before it stopped being renewed annually and just ran till changed, circa 2014. As you should also have needed to do!

However i've just checked mine on the Gov website and it also shows as untaxed since 1st Nov 1997, no mention of SORN.

I can't see that it makes a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things, unless, when you DO come to TAX it, (free or not) they try to fine you for not having it SORNed all these years!

Regardless of the fact that it's nowhere near road ready yet, I've been tempted for some time to put my Sprint on my Traders insurance (which costs nothing) pop down the PO and declare it Historic and MOT exempt and see what happens! (I know it's not REALLY suitable for MOT exemption, but by the time it actually gets driven in anger, it will have one!) It will probably be easier to update the V5 to incorporate the details of the new powertrain on a vehicle which is already "on the road".

Steve

I problem I face in getting the Sprinted 1500 on the road. Experience has taught me, that when dealing with computer says no bureaucrats, one false move can be fatal.

[Carledo]

When I bought my Sprint in 2012, untaxed since 97, it came without a V5 so I applied for one, when I recieved it, (8 days later, surprisingly quick work by DVLA) it was accompanied by a demand that I tax or SORN it IMMEDIATELY! So I SORNed it, and, as far as I can remember, renewed the SORN a couple of times before it stopped being renewed annually and just ran till changed, circa 2014. As you should also have needed to do!

However i've just checked mine on the Gov website and it also shows as untaxed since 1st Nov 1997, no mention of SORN.

I can't see that it makes a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things, unless, when you DO come to TAX it, (free or not) they try to fine you for not having it SORNed all these years!

Regardless of the fact that it's nowhere near road ready yet, I've been tempted for some time to put my Sprint on my Traders insurance (which costs nothing) pop down the PO and declare it Historic and MOT exempt and see what happens! (I know it's not REALLY suitable for MOT exemption, but by the time it actually gets driven in anger, it will have one!) It will probably be easier to update the V5 to incorporate the details of the new powertrain on a vehicle which is already "on the road".

Steve

I problem I face in getting the Sprinted 1500 on the road. Experience has taught me, that when dealing with computer says no bureaucrats, one false move can be fatal.

Been there, done that! When I put the Carledo on the road in 2011, it was just after they'd introduced the "must have provenance" rules for any replacement engine fitted, whether of the same type as original or a mod like mine. Since I had nothing whatsoever in the way of paperwork for the engine i'd fitted (the car it came from was scrapped years earlier, I couldn't even remember the reg number and it was never registered in my name) I was in deep do-do! Fortunately, I discovered a loophole in the form of a clause that let me get it verified by a recognised club official. This turned out, in my case, to be the local area organiser of the TSSC, he did a letter on TSSC headed paper, I sent this to DVLA and it was accepted, I got my correctly registered V5 back almost by return. Bear in mind that at this time, the car was still liable for road tax and I didn't want it confiscated and crushed for tax fraud as without correcting the V5, it would have been registered as a 1300 at a lower rate of duty, a similar position to your own! Now that's not the case as it's free, whether one litre or eight!

This provenance ruling was designed (so i'm informed) to cut down on the use of stolen parts. It seems, from the experience of others, to have been relaxed pretty much since then, as it didn't catch anyone! Soon enough, I will find out if that's true! But forewarned is forearmed, this time I have PLENTY of provenance on the engine I used in the Dolomega! If that fails, I know a few Club officials!

Steve

[Steve28]

Thinking back to mine i got it registered in my name and it was about 3 months later i got the letter regarding sorn
so i went on the DVLA sorn page and filled it all in thinking that's that sorted but then about another 3 months later i got another one but it seemed to be written like a final demand to do it or get a big fine so i went on DVLA sorn again filled it all in and it accepted it again, so to me its like they dont have a record that i have done it but iv'e got a reference number twice for it.

steve

[xvivalve]

The answer I gave above was advice given to me by DVLA by 'phone after buying TBJ which had been off road since 1992. I received the automated letter after having already tried to record SoRN online at point of purchase. I'm guessing the number of transactions where the vehicle has been off road for 22 years or more is such a small a minutely small percentage of all transactions recorded, there is little reason or purpose in them having a different process.

In legal terms, you cannot make a SoRN declaration on a vehicle unless it has actually been on the road since the legislation came into existence as statute cannot be applied retrospectively. The system, however, does allow you to go through the process.

[N1ck]

My can has been untaxed since 94. I recently tried to sorn it on the DVLA system - you can go through the motions, however the status didn't change after a few days so I mailed them to see what was wrong.

Basically confirming what has already been said, here is their response -

"It might help if I explain that on the 31 January 1998 the law changed. Keepers are now required to notify us if their vehicles are to be kept off the public road untaxed.

The scheme only applies to vehicles where the vehicle tax expired on or after 31 January 1998. As your vehicle was untaxed on this date, it does not fall into the Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN) scheme. It will only become liable to SORN if it is re-taxed and then subsequently taken off the road."

[cleverusername]

When I bought my Sprint in 2012, untaxed since 97, it came without a V5 so I applied for one, when I recieved it, (8 days later, surprisingly quick work by DVLA) it was accompanied by a demand that I tax or SORN it IMMEDIATELY! So I SORNed it, and, as far as I can remember, renewed the SORN a couple of times before it stopped being renewed annually and just ran till changed, circa 2014. As you should also have needed to do!

However i've just checked mine on the Gov website and it also shows as untaxed since 1st Nov 1997, no mention of SORN.

I can't see that it makes a lot of difference in the grand scheme of things, unless, when you DO come to TAX it, (free or not) they try to fine you for not having it SORNed all these years!

Regardless of the fact that it's nowhere near road ready yet, I've been tempted for some time to put my Sprint on my Traders insurance (which costs nothing) pop down the PO and declare it Historic and MOT exempt and see what happens! (I know it's not REALLY suitable for MOT exemption, but by the time it actually gets driven in anger, it will have one!) It will probably be easier to update the V5 to incorporate the details of the new powertrain on a vehicle which is already "on the road".

Steve

I problem I face in getting the Sprinted 1500 on the road. Experience has taught me, that when dealing with computer says no bureaucrats, one false move can be fatal.

Been there, done that! When I put the Carledo on the road in 2011, it was just after they'd introduced the "must have provenance" rules for any replacement engine fitted, whether of the same type as original or a mod like mine. Since I had nothing whatsoever in the way of paperwork for the engine i'd fitted (the car it came from was scrapped years earlier, I couldn't even remember the reg number and it was never registered in my name) I was in deep do-do! Fortunately, I discovered a loophole in the form of a clause that let me get it verified by a recognised club official. This turned out, in my case, to be the local area organiser of the TSSC, he did a letter on TSSC headed paper, I sent this to DVLA and it was accepted, I got my correctly registered V5 back almost by return. Bear in mind that at this time, the car was still liable for road tax and I didn't want it confiscated and crushed for tax fraud as without correcting the V5, it would have been registered as a 1300 at a lower rate of duty, a similar position to your own! Now that's not the case as it's free, whether one litre or eight!

This provenance ruling was designed (so i'm informed) to cut down on the use of stolen parts. It seems, from the experience of others, to have been relaxed pretty much since then, as it didn't catch anyone! Soon enough, I will find out if that's true! But forewarned is forearmed, this time I have PLENTY of provenance on the engine I used in the Dolomega! If that fails, I know a few Club officials!

Steve

It is one of those rules that sounds good but has been made by someone with little world experience. How many engines and other parts for old cars are going to come with paperwork? Till the rule was introduce, nobody knew to keep such things.

[Carledo]

It is one of those rules that sounds good but has been made by someone with little world experience. How many engines and other parts for old cars are going to come with paperwork? Till the rule was introduce, nobody knew to keep such things.

In all honesty, I don't think the ruling was in any way aimed at guys like us, we just got caught in the crossfire! I doubt if ANYONE involved in the planning of this debacle even considered the possibility of people in our circumstances, or the huge numbers of old engines just lying around in this country. Cars rust away with inevitable frequency, but engines generally don't, so there are far more engines around than old cars to put them in. And none of these engines have any sort of provenance attached, why would they?

The thinking seemed to be more about high end, high value stuff, Cosworth motors and Audi/BMW/Merc parts from cars stolen purely to break for spares. Since the engine actually HAS an ID number, it's easier to trace it's origins. The only old stuff they'd worry about is again, high value or extremely rare, Bugatti or Bentley, something like that. But introducing a "break point" in age or value or anything like that would have complicated things too much for them so they just made it universal.

It seems however, from my somewhat spotty information, that they only retreived a handful of stolen engines in the first 3 years, so in terms of results vs effort, it was a bust! Several folk of my acquaintance have applied for engine swap much more recently and had it accepted without comment or provenance. One or two out of maybe 30 that I know of have been asked for more details.

My guess is that they are randomly cherry picking the odd case and otherwise letting it quietly drop!

I am hoping for the best ( I prefer to always fly under the radar where officaldom is concerned) but I am prepared now for the worst, you can't catch a cat in the same trap twice!



Back on topic, I should have read Alun's first post more carefully, it would have saved half of this diatribe! And it would have helped if DVLA didn't send out demands that you do do something "OR ELSE", that you can't legally do! Or take 22 years to admit the mistake and then only to people who search for it diligently enough!

There is an old-ish saying "to err is human, but making a total cock up requires a computer" When a government operated computer gets involved, cock ups go from likely to inevitable! The smarter ones amongst us should have worked this out by now!

Steve

PS, i'm just about to get into another rigmarole with DVLA about the VED on SWMBO's Picasso. She is disabled and last year got her PIP upgraded to include a mobility component which entitles her to half price VED. It has to be paid by cheque or PO in one lump and accompanied by proof of entitlement, physically posted to a dedicated DVLA dept and the amount is neither the 6 monthly amount, nor half the annual amount. Last year, the to and fro took 3 months to get sorted, with almost weekly changes showing on the computer VED status of the car. I've just had the renewal notice for the VED and it's the standard demand for the full amount! Back to the drawing board, HEIGH HO!

[dollyman]

It is one of those rules that sounds good but has been made by someone with little world experience. How many engines and other parts for old cars are going to come with paperwork? Till the rule was introduce, nobody knew to keep such things.

In all honesty, I don't think the ruling was in any way aimed at guys like us, we just got caught in the crossfire! I doubt if ANYONE involved in the planning of this debacle even considered the possibility of people in our circumstances, or the huge numbers of old engines just lying around in this country. Cars rust away with inevitable frequency, but engines generally don't, so there are far more engines around than old cars to put them in. And none of these engines have any sort of provenance attached, why would they?

The thinking seemed to be more about high end, high value stuff, Cosworth motors and Audi/BMW/Merc parts from cars stolen purely to break for spares. Since the engine actually HAS an ID number, it's easier to trace it's origins. The only old stuff they'd worry about is again, high value or extremely rare, Bugatti or Bentley, something like that. But introducing a "break point" in age or value or anything like that would have complicated things too much for them so they just made it universal.

It seems however, from my somewhat spotty information, that they only retreived a handful of stolen engines in the first 3 years, so in terms of results vs effort, it was a bust! Several folk of my acquaintance have applied for engine swap much more recently and had it accepted without comment or provenance. One or two out of maybe 30 that I know of have been asked for more details.

My guess is that they are randomly cherry picking the odd case and otherwise letting it quietly drop!

I am hoping for the best ( I prefer to always fly under the radar where officaldom is concerned) but I am prepared now for the worst, you can't catch a cat in the same trap twice!



Back on topic, I should have read Alun's first post more carefully, it would have saved half of this diatribe! And it would have helped if DVLA didn't send out demands that you do do something "OR ELSE", that you can't legally do! Or take 22 years to admit the mistake and then only to people who search for it diligently enough!

There is an old-ish saying "to err is human, but making a total cock up requires a computer" When a government operated computer gets involved, cock ups go from likely to inevitable! The smarter ones amongst us should have worked this out by now!

Steve

PS, i'm just about to get into another rigmarole with DVLA about the VED on SWMBO's Picasso. She is disabled and last year got her PIP upgraded to include a mobility component which entitles her to half price VED. It has to be paid by cheque or PO in one lump and accompanied by proof of entitlement, physically posted to a dedicated DVLA dept and the amount is neither the 6 monthly amount, nor half the annual amount. Last year, the to and fro took 3 months to get sorted, with almost weekly changes showing on the computer VED status of the car. I've just had the renewal notice for the VED and it's the standard demand for the full amount! Back to the drawing board, HEIGH HO!

PM sent.
Tony.