Electronic ignition

[mahony]

Took the sprint for a run today and it started to cut out and die on me, don't think it's fuel related as the car just stops dead, I think it might be the Newtronic electronic ignition as it's about twenty odd years ago that I fitted it ( have checked all the ignition wiring and all seems ok ), what are the options regarding electronic ignition , Lumenition , ultra spark on ebay, or is Simon bbc still about ?

[triumphdolomiteuk]

Simon BBC are still around, I had their electronic distributor fitted to my 1500 about 18 months ago. Very good it is too, but I have no knowledge of the Sprint electronic kit though.

[Bumpa]

I've just fitted a Simon BBC electronic unit in the Delco distributor on my 1850. Worked well with much smoother idle. Then lockdown happened and I haven't been able to take the old girl for a decent run. https://simonbbc.com/

[mahony]

Thank's for all the replies i Just checked simon BBC's site and they no longer list a kit for the Sprint, theres a ultra spark one on Ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electronic-c ... g:TroAAOSw
feedback looks good , also theres 123 ignition ?

[Ron1966]

I have gone through 2 piranha or the newtronic optical systems with both doing about 50.000 miles each , the first one either had a spark or not. When it was running it was perfect then switch engine off suddenly no spark then when it started again perfect until you switched the engine off . The second one over a period of about a month slowly decreased the rev range from the red line to around 1500 revs , very weird that one. I replaced mine with an Aldon ignitor one.

[mahony]

I have gone through 2 piranha or the newtronic optical systems with both doing about 50.000 miles each , the first one either had a spark or not. When it was running it was perfect then switch engine off suddenly no spark then when it started again perfect until you switched the engine off . The second one over a period of about a month slowly decreased the rev range from the red line to around 1500 revs , very weird that one. I replaced mine with an Aldon ignitor one.

Thank's for that Ron, looks like it could well be the Newtronic system then, mine has only done 7000 miles or so but it's twenty years ago it was fitted so probably at the end of it's days.

[MIG Wielder]

It is possible to do some limited diagnostics on these Newtronic units, but you need a reasonable digital voltmeter.

There are 3 thick wires;

White : Should go to + 12V when IGN is ON. There should be constant 12.6 V on this wire.

Yellow : Should go to Coil CB or "-" terminal. When the starter is operated the voltage at this point should go between 12.6 V and approx; 1.0 V if the electronic box is switching O.K.

Blue : Should go to a good earth. If you see more that 0.5V on here the earthing needs improving.

Under the cover on the electronic box there are 3 thin wires. As these wires are very thin they can break.
They are:
Blue.
Yellow.
Red + Black.

There should be +7.5V on the Red + Black wire terminal measured w.r.t 0V.
There should be 6.1 V approx on the yellow wire.
If there is 0V it means the LED emitter part of the Magic Eye (!) is open circuit or the wire is broken.
If there is +7.5 V here it means the LED emitter is short circuit, or the driver in the electronic box is dead.
If you measure between the Yellow and the Red + Black terminals you should see 1.4V, the forward voltage of the LED emitter.

If you measure the voltage on the Blue wire w.r.t a good earth it should go between 0V with the Magic Eye obscured and 7.5 V with the Magic Eye unobscured.
If these voltages on the Blue wire are not correct it would be worth replacing the Magic Eye if you can get one separately from the Electronic box.
Don't leave the IGN ON for more that 30 secs when doing these tests.
HTH,
Tony.

[mahony]

Thanks Tony , have got a Fluke 73 multi meter and will do some tests.

[Bumpa]

Thank's for all the replies i Just checked simon BBC's site and they no longer list a kit for the Sprint, theres a ultra spark one on Ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electronic-c ... g:TroAAOSw
feedback looks good , also theres 123 ignition ?

I would bet that one of the SimonBBC kits will fit a Lucas 44D4 as used on the Sprint. Why not send them an email? They answered my queries quickly. You mention the 123 distributor. I have a 123-tune on my 3.9 litre MGB V8. This marvellous piece of kit is programmed through your laptop. I love it, but it is expensive.

[mahony]

Have emailed simon ( also found this http://www.southerncarbs.co.uk/onlinesh ... LU244.html )

[Carledo]

You can use a SimonBBC kit intended for a 45D4 Distributor, but you need the slightly taller Ambassador dizzy cap and a standard rotor, rather than the shorter Sprint specific one.

The whole point of the 44D4 is to get it's overall height down just a few critical mm in order to get the cap under the inlet, but you CAN get round it!

But because of this shortening by the factory, if you put a normal kit in everything fouls on something, triggerwheel on rotor, pickup on rotor, rotor on cap etc. You NEED a taller cap to make it all go in!

Simon USED to do a kit especially for the Sprint and it's 44D4, but for no obvious reason had a lot of failures. In the end, they dropped it because of this.

Lumenition Magnetronics also seem to suffer an unconscionable number of failures when used on Sprints, for no particularly apparent reason. possibly it's something to do with position and heat. The Optronic Lumenition kit doesn't seem to have the same drawback, with it's remote amplifier box but it is rather more expensive.

The 123 is the best of all worlds, with an advance curve programmable from a phone or laptop, in the best version it can be done wirelessly I believe.
However it's VERY expensive in the first place and you need a couple of bespoke machined parts and a lot of work to make the 123 fit a Sprint. Truly dedicated folk will do the time and spend the money, the less ardent will get that sharp intake of breath moment!

The other possibility for the adventurous is to cobble up a crank sensor and EDIS system and the distributor is reduced to being a gear that drives the oil pump!

I think, if I was looking to do something like this on a customer car, i'd go for the cheap and simple (so cheap you can afford to keep a spare kit in the glovebox) SimonBBC and Ambassador cap option. Were I ever to use a Sprint engine in one of my own cars, I think I'd build an EDIS and crank sensor arrangement.

Steve

[mahony]

Thanks Steve, I fitted one of those lead kits of of Ebay ( cannot remember who the seller was )with the different dizzy cap and plug in leads some years ago and it has a taller cap , I'm using the original rotor arm ( although I can see on the current ads they have a red rotor arm supplied ) , I'm gonna call simon on Monday and have a chat , do they do a optronic kit for the Sprint ?

[Carledo]

Thanks Steve, I fitted one of those lead kits of of Ebay ( cannot remember who the seller was )with the different dizzy cap and plug in leads some years ago and it has a taller cap , I'm using the original rotor arm ( although I can see on the current ads they have a red rotor arm supplied ) , I'm gonna call simon on Monday and have a chat , do they do a optronic kit for the Sprint ?

No Optronic from Simon, you'd have to go to a Lumenition agent or the parent company for one of those! Last time I looked they were somewhere around £150-170!

Steve

[gmsclassics]

I’ve recently fitted an Accuspark Stealth Kit 5 (with rotor) for 45D4 along with a ‘Lucas’ side entry cap to my Mimosa Sprint. It all fitted under the inlet manifold allowing the full rotation of the distributor. At its closest the cap is about 2mm from the rearmost manifold bolt (even with spring washer on). It all seems to work fine and was so easy to fit. See photo.

I have a Magnetronic unit on my other Sprint (since 2011) but as in NZ the Accuspark unit was less than half the price I went with this one. Also used Magnetronic on the Sprint I raced for years without issue although I have heard via the Forum of others who have had problems.

Geoff

[Ron1966]

I have had search through my collection of stuff I never throw away even though some part of it is faulty and I have found my two old piranha kits, but along with them is a piranha module box no trigger part though. This is something I picked up at a Cornwall car boot in a collection of old car bits. You are more than welcome to all the bits and you could try this module you never know it might solve the problem and save you some money. I will never use any of it and this car boot module might be ok but I don't know.