Front Suspension Refurbishment

[James R]

I am in the process of overhauling a number of my front suspension components and as a result, I have a couple of questions that I would appreciate some help with...

One of the items that I am replacing with new units are the track rod ends. In removing the near side unit, I counted the number of turns in taking it off, which was 21 complete turns. My question, is in putting a new unit on, is there a pre determined/estimated number of turns that should be adopted when replacing with new units, or is it sensible to replicate the number of turns that the old unit had? (I do appreciate that the whole suspension will require alignment after this overhaul).

My other question is around tightening and torqueing up all the suspension parts. So I will have new shocks, TRE's, upper and lower wishbones and as I understand things the way to do it is to basically hand tighten all of these new parts in situ and then lower the car to the ground so it takes all the weight and THEN torque and tighten each component. Is this the right approach or should the units be torqued and tightened with the car still up on stands prior to the weight of the car being added??

Any assistance or views on these 2 topics would be appreciated...

Thanks in advance...

[Bumpa]

If you put the new TRE on with the same number of turns as the old one came off, the tracking should be pretty close. Mind you 21 turns seems a lot in my experience. The ones I've done usually take around 14 turns.

General wisdom is that suspension pivots should be tightened with the car's weight on the suspension. That way the bushes aren't stressed in the normal position. However, it isn't always easy to get at the bolts and nuts with the wheel on, so I tend to place a small jack under the hub and jack the suspension up until the car is just about to come off the main support. Then I tighten the components as they are very near to the normal position.

[dollyman]

Buy some decent quality boots for any of the joints that you are replacing James. The ones that come on the new parts are POO and will need replacing in a couple of years Even if not used as a daily driver.

Tony.

[James R]

Thank you Gents.. Much appreciated...

The amount of turns I had on the N/S track rod end does sound odd when compared to yours. I am using the O/S as a reference for reassembly currently as I have taken it all off, hub, brake hoses the lot, so I think I will put the N/S back together completely and then disassemble the O/S and then see how many turns that TRE has. Looking quickly at the O/S the remaining TRE looks to be in the same place visually.... so if I get the same or a similar number of turns (which is what i would expect (?)) does that mean I have an issue somewhere else because I have so many turns??

I already had some new boots Tony from the club but thanks for the heads up... I have actually found 2 original Stanpart lower wishbones complete with the clear flatter boot if you remember them.. I will be however removing these and replacing with the club ones just for peace of mind.. The uppers have some serious looking wire holding the boots on and I suspect I could do more damage in trying to get them off so may just leave those on unless there is an easy way to remove said wire??

Thanks again fellas!!

[dollyman]

Thank you Gents.. Much appreciated...

The amount of turns I had on the N/S track rod end does sound odd when compared to yours. I am using the O/S as a reference for reassembly currently as I have taken it all off, hub, brake hoses the lot, so I think I will put the N/S back together completely and then disassemble the O/S and then see how many turns that TRE has. Looking quickly at the O/S the remaining TRE looks to be in the same place visually.... so if I get the same or a similar number of turns (which is what i would expect (?)) does that mean I have an issue somewhere else because I have so many turns??

I already had some new boots Tony from the club but thanks for the heads up... I have actually found 2 original Stanpart lower wishbones complete with the clear flatter boot if you remember them.. I will be however removing these and replacing with the club ones just for peace of mind.. The uppers have some serious looking wire holding the boots on and I suspect I could do more damage in trying to get them off so may just leave those on unless there is an easy way to remove said wire??

Thanks again fellas!!

A sharp pair of side cutters should do the job James. I do remember the Stanpart boot's, personally i would leave them on

Tony.

[Bumpa]

As for the number of turns on the TRE, it is of no consequence except that it could put the toe in out of kilter. Ideally you want the same (or close to the same) number of turns on both sides because then the rack will be in the centre position when going straight ahead. If you are getting the tracking checked after you finish there's no need to worry. I would put it together with the same turns on both sides. When adjusting the tracking the operator should adjust both ends equally to get the correct setting, as this keeps the rack centralised.

[Carledo]

............... When adjusting the tracking the operator should adjust both ends equally to get the correct setting, as this keeps the rack centralised.

Can't help but emphasise the word SHOULD! The trained monkeys in ThickTwit and their contemporaries usually can't be bothered to keep it even!

I don't find it unusual to have 20+ turns of thread in a Dolomite TRE. In fact i'd consider it more normal than Bumpa's sub 15 figure. I'd only worry about about it if there was an obvious discrepancy between sides.

My normal procedure when replacing TREs is to leave the locknut in position, 9 times out of 10, when you "slacken" the locknut the track rod goes with it, then wind the new TRE up to it (unless replacing gaiters at the same time) thats a good base best guess to work to. Then slap the guages on it for the final tweak. One of my better buys, that old, used set of tracking guages! Still spot on accurate after more than 30 years of hard use!

Steve

[Bumpa]

I use a Gunsons Trakrite drive-over gauge. Such a simple idea and works really well.

[James R]

Thanks again everyone.

Information greatly received and appreciated.

Cheers..

[matt of the vivas]

I use a Gunsons Trakrite drive-over gauge. Such a simple idea and works really well.

+1 on the Trakrite. Never use anything else.

[Richard the old one]

I am another Gunson Trackright user. Very easy to use and well worth the cost.

[James R]

Hi Everyone,

I have not got round to putting the suspension components together yet, for many reasons, but I am hoping for some time in the next couple of weekends. Just wanted to ask another question after mulling it over last night and before I embark on the work......

So with a new shock absorber, TRE and upper and lower ball joints to go in and be secured, I was just wandering if there is a correct or best sequence to the refit? By this I mean do things have to go back and be tightened in a particular order?

I am looking to fit all of the items loosely, with the start point being to secure the shock absorber as it has the most fixing points. assuming I have done this, in respect of the TRE and ball joints would I tighten them in any particular sequence or does it not really matter?? I have the advice of tightening each of these to a safe point before lowering car and then torqueing everything up with the weight of the car down... Hence my wandering as to how important it might be to follow a sequence?

If I am over thinking this then could someone please let me know and I will go on my merry way and fit/tighten as I see fit..!

Thanks in advance...

Br

James

[Bumpa]

Yep, you're over-thinking it. Just refit the components in whatever order seems sensible to you. Don't tighten anything right up until the car's weight is on the hubs. I usually put an axle stand under each hub with the wheels off and let the jack down, so the weight is on the suspension. That way I can get at the nuts more easily than if the car is resting on its wheels..

[MIG Wielder]

Hi James, I couldn't see a specific assembly order in the workshop manual, but from being there before the only slightly difficult bit is compressing the new spring/ damper assembly so you can get the lower ball joint pin in the lower wishbone. So I'd start at the top with the spring / damper assembly, then fit the upper ball joint, then bolt the lower ball-joint in; then you only need a bar to gently lever the lower suspension arm down so you can fit the taper pin in it (dry). Then finally the track rod end. The downward spring pressure will help to seat the tapers so you can do up the nuts.
I would then start tightening the nuts and lower the car to the ground.
Bounce on the suspension to settle it and torque up the nuts which will now be behind the wheel. You will need a selection of long socket extensions, and the lower suspension ball-joint is close to the ground so a short length socket is helpful.
Then check tracking and away you go

Tony.