Car not starting

[Larry 1300]

Hi I found the where the cable from the battery goes to the block. Cleaned the connection. Still no dice.
I will let you know how I get on after I get my jump leads.

[Larry 1300]

Hi the jump leads came. I tried on 2 different area's on the engine block. No joy. What should I try now please? Thanks Laurence

[GrahamFountain]

Is it a separate solenoid on the 1300, like on our Herald? If so, is either end of the output lead to the starter accessible to safely connect a jump lead to?

Graham

[Richard the old one]

I have just had a look in my official 1976onwards parts catalogue and it shows that the 1300 has a inertia type starter with a separate starter solenoid. This is completely different to the 1500cc Dolomites that I know well but I assume that it should be fairly easy to apply 12volts directly to to the solenoid output side or even to the motor directly and so rule out a problem with the starter solenoid.

[Larry 1300]

Hi thanks for everyone's help.
This is what I did today. I left the lights on and 3 hours later the battery was empty. I connected the jumpstarter. The first 2 times she turned over about 6-8 seconds. The next 2 it was only a second or 2. Then the jumpstarter died.
I will try again tomorrow . I will make sure that there is fuel at the pump. I will charge the battery slightly. I will let you know how I get on.
The starter is not that old. I refurbished it when I could see ok.
I have a spare one also. It's worked a bit lately though.

[Larry 1300]

Hi no joy with getting the car started. There is gasat the pump. Tried again with the jumpstarter. No cigar. Not even close .
So is this correct to test the starter. Connect a jump lead to the position battery terminal. And the other to the starter motor where the power cable is attached. If that is right I will try it tomorrow.

[GrahamFountain]

Hi no joy with getting the car started. There is gasat the pump. Tried again with the jumpstarter. No cigar. Not even close .
So is this correct to test the starter. Connect a jump lead to the position battery terminal. And the other to the starter motor where the power cable is attached. If that is right I will try it tomorrow.

Well, I'd connect the starter motor end first, and be careful it couldn't short to earth. Only then would I touch the other end to the positive terminal of a fully charged battery, and see if the motor turns for longer than the few seconds with the key.

A possible, if more expensive alternative and if there's access, might be to fit a Herald/Spitfire solenoid with a manual start button built into it: e.g. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOR-FITS-LUC ... SwLDBeGEAK.
Being able to turn the engine on the strater from the engine bay comes in useful now and again.

[Richard the old one]

Larry have you been able to make any progress?

[Larry 1300]

Hi I changed the starter motor. The battery not fully charging. That was my fault. A new one arrived today.
Tried to start but exactly the same. Just turning for a second only then stopping. Any pointers on what to try next please? Captain_70 said that he would come over and have a look. Thanks

[GrahamFountain]

Did you try to bypass the solenoid with a jump lead?

If that makes it work, it's likely the solenoid, though it could be one of them peculiar faults with the ignition switch, the wiring to or from it, or the fuse or fuse box.

If it don't, given the replaced starter and battery, it nearly must be the earth - though I'm at a loss to think how an earth fault would let it turn for 2 secs and then not.

Graham

[Larry 1300]

Hi captain_70s is coming to help me on Sunday. I will let you know how I get on. Thanks

[captain_70s]

I've had to admit defeat, it's got me a bit baffled!


So, it spins over fine and quickly. It seems to cough a tiny bit, usually on the first turn of the key, just enough to kick the starter out and then dies. No hint of it running at all.

So far the following has been carried out:

Starter motor replaced with a refurbished one, then taken back out and the original fitted, just in case. Both were tested off the car and seemed fine.
All the starter solenoid connections taken off and cleaned and replaced.
The two chassis earths and engine earth have been removed, cleaned and replaced.
Spark plugs taken out and cleaned.
Points cleaned and gap set.
Swapped the rotor arm.
Dashpot oil replaced.
Air filter removed to check the carb piston wasn't stuck.
Tried retarding and advancing the ignition timing.

If you pop the dizzy cap off so the car won't try and fire it spins over fine. Spark seems decent, at least decent enough to run the car, and it's firing on all four. It almost seems like it's flooding, but it ran fine the last time it ran so I'm confused as to what'd be causing that to happen...

Both starters also sound quite rough when disengaging, making a grinding noise. The teeth don't appear to be badly damaged and the flywheel also looks to be in decent nick so I'm unsure as to the cause of that as well. One starter is old and fairly worn but seems functional, the other freshly refurbished. The spacing plate is present and correct.

I think next time I pop over I'll bring the compression tester and see if we're getting good numbers just as a matter of course, although the engine turns by hand fine and you can feel compression.

Any advice before I start fiddling with the mixture? I'm a bit loath to mess with the carb when the car was running with the same setup just a couple of weeks ago...

[marshman]

Is the car running a ballasted coil/ignition? If so sounds to me like the ballast resistor feed is missing. Easy to check. Turn on the ignition - don't try to start it or turn it over) and check you have power to the coil - if the points are open there will be 12V both sides of the coil, if the points are closed then you should get roughly 6V one side and nothing the other.

Explanation - when cranking there is a direct 12V feed to the coil fed from the starter solenoid, as soon as the starter disengages this 12V feed is removed, the ignition should then continue to run on the "ballasted" supply, but if the ballasted supply to the coil is missing then the engine will stop.

It was a system that was used to "boost" the spark when cranking as the starter puts a heavy load on the battery and reduces the voltage available to the coil, so they used a 6V coil fed via a resistor under normal running but fed direct when the starter was being operated.

If the car doesn't have a ballasted coil then ignore what I said!

Roger

[captain_70s]

Good call.

I believe all post 1976 cars have a ballast built into the loom, although I could be wrong!

[Larry 1300]

Hi I checked the points with the ignition on and off. They looked the same. Thanks