E10 fuel

[tamtrucks]

hi all
as E10 fuel is coming in forecourts

what do we older car owners have to do and look out for?

thanks nic

[yorkshire_spam]

Pumps are labelled according to the ethanol/biodiesel %.
You'll start to see standard unleaded with E10 labels but the premium should remain E5.

[Bumpa]

Basically the best advice is not to put it in your classic car at all. Use the Super grade which will remain at max 5% ethanol. My local garages have already gone over to E10 for Regular grade.

[tamtrucks]

so we older cars cant use it (full stop)...so what mods do we do to make it useable? upgrade all rubbers componants? or DONT USE at all even with upgrades

[cliftyhanger]

Just use quality R9 or better hoses. Not from ebay suppliers (AFS sell fake hose) but from somebody reliable. That is all I intend doing.
My wifes y2000 mx5 is "not compatible" and yet nobody knows why, and many have been using e10 or whatever in europe with no side effects (bar slightly reduced mpg etc)

[triumphdolomiteuk]

There's some advice on E10 fuel in the latest FHBVC newsletter. Link to the FHBVC archive in the members only section.

[Bumpa]

so we older cars cant use it (full stop)...so what mods do we do to make it useable? upgrade all rubbers componants? or DONT USE at all even with upgrades

How many miles a year does your "older" car cover on average? Most classic cars cover less than 3000 miles a year, and many much less. So the extra cost of Super grade fuel is pretty small in real terms. Why risk using E10 and possibly damaging something? Even if you change the flexible hoses to something compatible, there are rumours that E10 will damage certain metal components in the carb or fuel pump. I won't use it.

[tamtrucks]

mine has been using bp super and shell v-power since ive had her 7-8yrs ago...its only that local garage has e5 unleaded and e10 availible....they still waiting for super unleaded pump to fixed ...had too put in unleaded basic but only put in tenners worth today
i do feel that unleaded is crap for my car,feels underpowered and drinks more but with super unleaded or v-power wow the difference is noticeble

i only ask this...cos more and more fill stations are stocking and converting to e10

[Carledo]

Just use quality R9 or better hoses. Not from ebay suppliers (AFS sell fake hose) but from somebody reliable. That is all I intend doing.
My wifes y2000 mx5 is "not compatible" and yet nobody knows why, and many have been using e10 or whatever in europe with no side effects (bar slightly reduced mpg etc)

The Dolomega's donor car, a Y2k Omega is also "not compatible" with E10! So that's one of the advantages of the conversion (the ability to run on supermarket fuel) down the drain before it's even properly on the road. I'm running R9 hose throughout, but I think the incompatibility is somewhere in the octane rating vs compression ratio area. Earlier Vauxhalls (like my MKIII Cavaliers) had a clever little doohickey in the loom that plugged in and gave a choice of either 91 and 95 ron, or an alternate plug gave 95 or 98 ron. This thing is either a placebo or it alters the map subtly to cope with varying grades of fuel. The Omega doesn't have this choice giver, so probably preset to 95 and that's it. Hence the incompatibility with E10 which, IIRC, is 91 ron, maybe even 87!

If the cheaper E10 delivers poorer gas mileage then that means that the "super" E5 or E0 is less of a burden in terms of expense as you'll get better economy AND performance by using it and none of the risks of other unwanted side effects that we don't know about yet! One I suspect is that E10 will have an even lower temperature of vaporisation than E5. So vapour lock in carbs will get even worse and will probably start at lower ambient temperatures. At the moment, in the UK, it's only a problem in traffic and during infrequent spells of high ambient temps, over about 28 degrees C. So just about bearable if you are patient and avoid traffic jams whilst out on your sunny Sunday drive. E10 will probably change all that!

Steve

[matt of the vivas]

I've changed the fuel hoses on my vehicles to Gates Barricade, bought from a Marine shop so it's the genuine stuff. Nothing I own is E10 compatible but I've been sticking it anyway on the basis that if it breaks... I'll fix it.
No issues so far. If anything, my 1850 seems smoother and more powerful on E10.
One observation - it seems to have a far higher solvent effect. On both my old bikes I've had to replace fuel filters soon after switching over to E10 and the not-very-old one on the Dolomite is looking grubby. Not sure that's a bad thing though.

[dursley92]

Couple of really interesting online lectures on the TR Register site about ethanol fuels and their effects on our cars. Some interesting stuff and its not all bad news. We know it will affect the "rubber" components in the fuel system but all ethanol fuels encourage galvanic corrosion if ANY amount of water gets in. This can be just simply be from condensation in the tank.
Its based on actual testing and experiments on materials plus dynomometer testing of an MG engine by Manchester University.
He also points out that Cleveland Discol petrol, which some of us may remember being sold up until 1968, also contained ethanol and no-one seemed to notice any ill effects at the time.

The guy who did the presntations ( Paul Ireland ) has also written a little book about it with all the royalties going to charity.

https://classicenginesmodernfuel.org.uk ... nFuel/Book

[TrustNo1]

There are a two very simply ways around this, either use an E5 fuel (most 'super' UL will be E5) or use an Ethanol stabiliser of which there are plenty available such as Valvemaster Classic plus that also contain other additives if you need octane boosters as well.

[TrustNo1]

Pumps are labelled according to the ethanol/biodiesel %.
You'll start to see standard unleaded with E10 labels but the premium should remain E5.

Not all Premium are E5, in some areas such as cornwall and Scotland Esso premium can be E10, but as you say its on the pumps.

[xvivalve]

I've changed the fuel hoses on my vehicles to Gates Barricade, bought from a Marine shop so it's the genuine stuff. Nothing I own is E10 compatible but I've been sticking it anyway on the basis that if it breaks... I'll fix it.
No issues so far. If anything, my 1850 seems smoother and more powerful on E10.
One observation - it seems to have a far higher solvent effect. On both my old bikes I've had to replace fuel filters soon after switching over to E10 and the not-very-old one on the Dolomite is looking grubby. Not sure that's a bad thing though.

Until after September the first, the pumps labelled as E10 will still be supplying E5, so that will be the prime reason why you haven't experienced any issues so far.

[xvivalve]

My local garages have already gone over to E10 for Regular grade.

Until September the first, they are just labelling/replacing pumps in readiness. Supply of E10 only becomes legal after 01 September, so it will be the first tanker deliveries after that date that are carrying E10.

I'm presuming the recent 10p+/litre hike in prices is to cover the costs of preparedness...most filling stations around here have had new pumps fitted rather than just new labels, so perhaps 'our' vehicles aren't the only incompatibility?