1300 Halogen Bulbs

[TurningSpanners]

Evening all,

I'm going to be looking at upgrading the headlamps on my 1300 to the H4 Halogen bulbs in the near future.
I have done a search on the forum and all I could find was the procedure to upgrade the HL / Twin Headlamp setup.

So, a quick question is the process the same and it's best to fit relays - or are they not needed for the 1300 ?
If they are needed, is there a plug n play loom available?

Thank you,

[Carledo]

I won't definitively say ALL, but most square headlights made for the Dolomite and Toledo range (also Allegro, Hillman Avenger et al) are made to accomodate the 410 tungsten bulb, rather than the H4 Halogen (AKA 472) There ARE Halogen conversion bulbs available, I have them in the Carledo, but can't remember their number at this time of night and the garage is dark and cluttered, I'll check tomorrow!

These bulbs are the same 65/55w output as the stock H4 (the 410 is a measly 45/40w) and have not, in the 10 years i've been running them, given any trouble to my dipswitch and wiring.

The real killer on the 4 lamp cars is having 4 main beams (at least 260w) going at once, a problem the 2 lamp cars don't have. Relays, if you do decide on belt and braces, would be wired exactly the same as the 4 lamp cars, diagrams are elsewhere on these pages.

If you intend to fit a couple of long range driving lights to supplement the main beams, i'd recommend relays for the same reason as on the 4 lamp cars.

Steve

[TurningSpanners]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I had a feeling that may be the case with the single headlamp set up, and the standard wiring should be OK.
The reflective ls on my lights are looking a little corroded, so I managed to get some early Metro headlights on eBay, which I believe can be fettled to fit - the H4s would be going into these.

I do plan to fit some driving/spot lamps at some point, mainly for aesthetics, but will be running these on a separate toggle switch & relayed loom.

Thanks again,
Wayne

[naskeet]

I won't definitively say ALL, but most square headlights made for the Dolomite and Toledo range (also Allegro, Hillman Avenger et al) are made to accomodate the 410 tungsten bulb, rather than the H4 Halogen (AKA 472) There ARE Halogen conversion bulbs available, I have them in the Carledo, but can't remember their number at this time of night and the garage is dark and cluttered, I'll check tomorrow!

These bulbs are the same 65/55w output as the stock H4 (the 410 is a measly 45/40w) and have not, in the 10 years i've been running them, given any trouble to my dipswitch and wiring.

The real killer on the 4 lamp cars is having 4 main beams (at least 260w) going at once, a problem the 2 lamp cars don't have. Relays, if you do decide on belt and braces, would be wired exactly the same as the 4 lamp cars, diagrams are elsewhere on these pages.

If you intend to fit a couple of long range driving lights to supplement the main beams, i'd recommend relays for the same reason as on the 4 lamp cars.

Steve

As Steve has said, the normal substitute H4 quartz-halogen bulb (P45t mounting flange like the factory-fitted 410 45/40W glass-envelope bulb) is 60/55W, but one might still be able to get P45t flanged, 100/80W quartz-halogen bulbs, like those fitted to my 1973 VW Type 2.



From as early as the mid-1970s, quartz-halogen, 60/55W, H4 bulbs, with P45t mounting flanges, have been available to substitute, into the ordinary non-H4 headlamp units, as I did in 1976, with my British specification, 1973 VW Type 2; resulting in vastly improved headlamp performance, on both main & dipped beams.

In 1989, I learned of 100/55W & 100/80W, P45t flanged H4 bulbs, of which I used the latter to further upgrade my headlamps; also upgrading the circuit with heavy-duty cable and two Hella 40A relays (one each, for main & dipped beams).

These P45t flanged H4 bulbs, have been known to be available in 60/55W, 100/55W, 100/80W & 130/90W power ratings.

One can also obtain P45t to P43t adapters, which enable one to fit the more commonly available, standard & uprated P43t flanged quartz-halogen into headlamps designed for P45t flanged bulbs like the 410.

The P43t flanged H4 bulbs, have been known to be available in 60/55W, 100/55W, 100/80W, 130/90W & 160/100W power ratings.

[TrustNo1]

I would fit relays, its a 10 minute job and could save problems later on.

[cleverusername]

The one word of caution I would say about all this is, just because a bulb will fit doesn't mean it is compatible with the headlight unit. The problem with fitting a more powerful and different type of bulb to one the unit is designed for is, the possibility of dazzling other drivers. You see this with illegal and dangerous HID conversions.

Whether that would be an issue with the Dolly headlights, I have no idea. I don't know how much difference there is between a tungsten and halogen bulb and whether the extra output would a problem for the units reflectors.

[TurningSpanners]

Thanks all for the additional info,

The Metro Headlamps I plan to install have the H4 bulb as standard, so I'm confident they will be ok for compatibility - and since I plan, at some point when it's eventually ready, to use her as a summer "daily" I will add relays whilst I'm fiddling about (just that I hate electrics !).

Thanks again,

Wayne

[Carledo]

I won't definitively say ALL, but most square headlights made for the Dolomite and Toledo range (also Allegro, Hillman Avenger et al) are made to accomodate the 410 tungsten bulb, rather than the H4 Halogen (AKA 472) There ARE Halogen conversion bulbs available, I have them in the Carledo, but can't remember their number at this time of night and the garage is dark and cluttered, I'll check tomorrow!

These bulbs are the same 65/55w output as the stock H4 (the 410 is a measly 45/40w) and have not, in the 10 years i've been running them, given any trouble to my dipswitch and wiring.

The real killer on the 4 lamp cars is having 4 main beams (at least 260w) going at once, a problem the 2 lamp cars don't have. Relays, if you do decide on belt and braces, would be wired exactly the same as the 4 lamp cars, diagrams are elsewhere on these pages.

If you intend to fit a couple of long range driving lights to supplement the main beams, i'd recommend relays for the same reason as on the 4 lamp cars.

Steve

As Steve has said, the normal substitute H4 quartz-halogen bulb (P45t mounting flange like the factory-fitted 410 45/40W glass-envelope bulb) is 60/55W, but one might still be able to get P45t flanged, 100/80W quartz-halogen bulbs, like those fitted to my 1973 VW Type 2.



From as early as the mid-1970s, quartz-halogen, 60/55W, H4 bulbs, with P45t mounting flanges, have been available to substitute, into the ordinary non-H4 headlamp units, as I did in 1976, with my British specification, 1973 VW Type 2; resulting in vastly improved headlamp performance, on both main & dipped beams.

In 1989, I learned of 100/55W & 100/80W, P45t flanged H4 bulbs, of which I used the latter to further upgrade my headlamps; also upgrading the circuit with heavy-duty cable and two Hella 40A relays (one each, for main & dipped beams).

These P45t flanged H4 bulbs, have been known to be available in 60/55W, 100/55W, 100/80W & 130/90W power ratings.

One can also obtain P45t to P43t adapters, which enable one to fit the more commonly available, standard & uprated P43t flanged quartz-halogen into headlamps designed for P45t flanged bulbs like the 410.

The P43t flanged H4 bulbs, have been known to be available in 60/55W, 100/55W, 100/80W, 130/90W & 160/100W power ratings.

I've not lately seen any of the higher wattage 410 substitute Halogen conversion bulbs being offered (though i've not checked widely) My local factors only stock the 65/55w version, which I regard as quite ample. In my experience, correct headlamp adjustment is more important than bulb power, as is also the quality and design of the reflector. I paid out quite a bit for genuine Hella (Cibie) flat front outer metal-and-glass units for the Dolomega and a bit less for genuine Lucas inners, Then set them up carefully on the test station beamsetter (original bowls and adjusters refurbed by me) The result is more than sufficient for use on the darkest of lanes, so far i've not even had the covers off my Square 8s, i've not needed to. I'm only running completely legal 65/55w H4s in both inner and outer lamps (with the dip not connected in the inners, again to stay within C+U regs)

There are 2 reasons why I don't look for higher output bulbs, firstly, 65/55w is the highest output that meets C+U regs, secondly, my experience with these illegal high output bulbs (ie 100/80w) has been poor, with them often failing to reach MOT focusing standard on the beamsetter. No doubt if you pay enough and get genuine Hella or similar, you might get some that actually focus correctly, my customer base is (or was) a bit more cheapskate and the "uprated" bulbs THEY bought were largely unfit for purpose!

Yes they are widely available, but if you read the (very) small print, they are for "off road use only". In much the same way that you can buy number plates indistinguishable from street legal ones but sold as "show plates" to get round the legal messing about with personal and vehicle ID consonant with buying a plate the "right" way!

Steve

[Carledo]

The one word of caution I would say about all this is, just because a bulb will fit doesn't mean it is compatible with the headlight unit. The problem with fitting a more powerful and different type of bulb to one the unit is designed for is, the possibility of dazzling other drivers. You see this with illegal and dangerous HID conversions.

Whether that would be an issue with the Dolly headlights, I have no idea. I don't know how much difference there is between a tungsten and halogen bulb and whether the extra output would a problem for the units reflectors.

In this case, it's not a problem, so long as you use decent quality bulbs, it will pass MOT without question.

I agree about the HID conversions and am pleased that LED headlight bulbs have now also been outlawed on "our" cars. They are a menace to other road users!

[naskeet]

So far as pre-1986 Triumph Toledos & Dolomites are concerned, H4 quartz-halogen bulbs are legal, provided neither the dipped-beam or main-beam filaments of any individual bulb are NOT LESS than 30W each and the lamps DO NOT cause undue dazzle to other road users, which is principally a matter of correct headlamp alignment. This was something I clarified in late-1984, with the RAC Legal Deparment, the Department of Transport and the Essex Police Traffic Division; which you can check for yourselves in "The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations, 1989" and Amendments.

On a "four-headlamp" Dolomite, one may legally have four main-beams and four dipped-beams!

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/198 ... tents/made

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/198 ... ule/4/made

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/198 ... ule/5/made

[soe8m]

I've not lately seen any of the higher wattage 410 substitute Halogen conversion bulbs being offered (though i've not checked widely) My local factors only stock the 65/55w version, which I regard as quite ample. In my experience, correct headlamp adjustment is more important than bulb power, as is also the quality and design of the reflector. I paid out quite a bit for genuine Hella (Cibie) flat front outer metal-and-glass units for the Dolomega and a bit less for genuine Lucas inners, Then set them up carefully on the test station beamsetter (original bowls and adjusters refurbed by me) The result is more than sufficient for use on the darkest of lanes, so far i've not even had the covers off my Square 8s, i've not needed to. I'm only running completely legal 65/55w H4s in both inner and outer lamps (with the dip not connected in the inners, again to stay within C+U regs)

There are 2 reasons why I don't look for higher output bulbs, firstly, 65/55w is the highest output that meets C+U regs, secondly, my experience with these illegal high output bulbs (ie 100/80w) has been poor, with them often failing to reach MOT focusing standard on the beamsetter. No doubt if you pay enough and get genuine Hella or similar, you might get some that actually focus correctly, my customer base is (or was) a bit more cheapskate and the "uprated" bulbs THEY bought were largely unfit for purpose!

Yes they are widely available, but if you read the (very) small print, they are for "off road use only". In much the same way that you can buy number plates indistinguishable from street legal ones but sold as "show plates" to get round the legal messing about with personal and vehicle ID consonant with buying a plate the "right" way!

Steve

There are good ones available here. Most oldies do want a bright lights with their new wiring harness but most of the time not changing the headlamp units.

https://www.lampengrossier.nl/epages/61 ... n/H4__P45T

No troubles with blurry lines on the test screen. You could use the 100/55w to be legal.

Jeroen

[naskeet]

I've not lately seen any of the higher wattage 410 substitute Halogen conversion bulbs being offered (though i've not checked widely) My local factors only stock the 65/55w version, which I regard as quite ample. In my experience, correct headlamp adjustment is more important than bulb power, as is also the quality and design of the reflector. I paid out quite a bit for genuine Hella (Cibie) flat front outer metal-and-glass units for the Dolomega and a bit less for genuine Lucas inners, Then set them up carefully on the test station beamsetter (original bowls and adjusters refurbed by me) The result is more than sufficient for use on the darkest of lanes, so far i've not even had the covers off my Square 8s, i've not needed to. I'm only running completely legal 65/55w H4s in both inner and outer lamps (with the dip not connected in the inners, again to stay within C+U regs)

There are 2 reasons why I don't look for higher output bulbs, firstly, 65/55w is the highest output that meets C+U regs, secondly, my experience with these illegal high output bulbs (ie 100/80w) has been poor, with them often failing to reach MOT focusing standard on the beamsetter. No doubt if you pay enough and get genuine Hella or similar, you might get some that actually focus correctly, my customer base is (or was) a bit more cheapskate and the "uprated" bulbs THEY bought were largely unfit for purpose!

Yes they are widely available, but if you read the (very) small print, they are for "off road use only". In much the same way that you can buy number plates indistinguishable from street legal ones but sold as "show plates" to get round the legal messing about with personal and vehicle ID consonant with buying a plate the "right" way!

Steve

The H4 quartz-halogen bulbs described as for "off road only" have this restriction applied to 1st April 1986 onward cars. It does not apply to our pre-April 1986 cars like my 1973 model-year VW Type 2 (first-registered November 1972) or 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 (first registered November 1974).

On my 1973 VW Type 2, equipped with its original Hella headlamps designed for 410, 45/40W glass envelope bulbs, I never had any problem with beam alignment (as viewed on the beam-setter screen), for either the Lucas branded P45t flanged 60/55W quartz-halogen bulbs (bought in 1976 for circa £9 per pair) or the Ring branded P45t flanged 100/80W quartz-halogen bulbs (bought in circa 1988/89 for circa £6.50 each).

It's interesting to note the current availability of the following P45t flanged H4 quartz-halogen bulbs:

https://www.lampengrossier.nl/epages/61 ... 5012061545

https://www.lampengrossier.nl/epages/61 ... 5012061845

https://www.lampengrossier.nl/epages/61 ... 5012061945

https://www.lampengrossier.nl/epages/61 ... 0120613945

There is even greater scope with the P43t flanged H4 quartz-halogen bulbs:

https://www.lampengrossier.nl/epages/61 ... n/H4__P43T

Here are a few links to 45t flange to P43t flange adapters, but it pays to shop around if you want some:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threa ... ns.433650/

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=p4 ... RE&first=1

https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/produc ... lb-adapter

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282431057343

www.volvosolutions.com/Misc_P45T.html