Water in footwells

[cleverusername]

Diagnosing the knocking sound has had to go on hold because the cam cover gasket has failed. It was a more expensive rubber one as well, so not please. So I can't start the engine till a new one comes.

So I have decided to fight the other loosing battle, water in footwells. Part of the problem is the rubbish new windscreen seal, which is frankly leaking like a sieve, even after filling it will black windscreen sealant. Anyone know of a superior seal?

So far I have welded up both corners of the windscreen surround, various holes in the scuttle and the bulkhead. Then the floor on the passengers side were it connects to the inner wing and the various holes around the transmission tunnel. Yet the water is still getting in.

On the passenger side a track of water appears on top of the inner sill inner wing junction, as if from nowhere and flow into a nice puddle. The other side the main leak appears to be coming from above the gromit which covers the hole to reinforcing box section at the top of the inner wing.

I have the entire dash out, again. An operation I can now do in 5 minutes, thanks to all the practice. The problem is the leaks are so slow and gradual, that they are very hard to find. Tried the talcum powder trick and the leaks weren't leaving an distinct tracks.

I have to admit that making this car completely water tight has become a bit of an obsession.

[new to this]

Did you run seam sealer round all the plates you welded in, maybe theres a small pin hole in the weld

Dave

[cleverusername]

Did you run seam sealer round all the plates you welded in, maybe theres a small pin hole in the weld

Dave

They have all been sealed that way, when I can I have sealed both sides and it has made little difference. It is annoying because I cannot for the life of me figure out how it is still tracking in.

I will say that the front of a Dolly is a terrible design when it comes to water ingress. Some cars are just like that and it includes moderns. For example Honda Jazz's are notorious for letting water in the boot. It is a bit more annoying when the issue is in the front and I suspect that the sound deadening and carpets are hiding leaks on allot of cars.

My current plan is to wait a big rain storm and sit in the car with a torch, so I can watch how it is getting in.

[new to this]

Did you run seam sealer round all the plates you welded in, maybe theres a small pin hole in the weld

Dave

They have all been sealed that way, when I can I have sealed both sides and it has made little difference. It is annoying because I cannot for the life of me figure out how it is still tracking in.

I will say that the front of a Dolly is a terrible design when it comes to water ingress. Some cars are just like that and it includes moderns. For example Honda Jazz's are notorious for letting water in the boot. It is a bit more annoying when the issue is in the front and I suspect that the sound deadening and carpets are hiding leaks on allot of cars.

My current plan is to wait a big rain storm and sit in the car with a torch, so I can watch how it is getting in.

May be easier to you a hose pipe spray over windscreen and roof area

[dollyman]

Could it be 'sweat' with all the work you are doing? Sorry i will get my coat....

Tony,

[cleverusername]

I have made a little progress, I have tracked one of the leaks to the wiring to the internal light. Water is tracking down this wire, which tells me it must be getting into the A-pillar on the drivers side somehow.

Looking at it, my guess is, it is making its way between where the upper panel is attached to the gutter. Would I be right in thinking this would have been spot welded in the factory and not seam welded? Which would leave a gap for water to get in.

Does anybody know if they used any sealant in the factory to make this seam water tight?

[Matt Cotton]

Richard Old produced a good article on how water enters a Dolomite. I do recall he found after many investigations that water can indeed get in from the gutter seams. I think they would have been sealed at factory but over time this will have gone hard and dried out. Some black RTV silicon around this area should seal it up.. The same applies at the rear of the roof near the 'D' post where water trickles down and sits in the corners of the boot floor.. Another rot spot.

I'm sure Richard will chip in when he reads this.
Best wishes MC.

[cleverusername]

Richard Old produced a good article on how water enters a Dolomite. I do recall he found after many investigations that water can indeed get in from the gutter seams. I think they would have been sealed at factory but over time this will have gone hard and dried out. Some black RTV silicon around this area should seal it up.. The same applies at the rear of the roof near the 'D' post where water trickles down and sits in the corners of the boot floor.. Another rot spot.

I'm sure Richard will chip in when he reads this.
Best wishes MC.

To be fair to the Dolly I think this might be my fault. I repainted the roof and fixed some surface rust. While I was at it I painted the inside of the gutters and cleaned them up with a wire brush on a drill. I suspect that I may have removed the sealant material, I assume it was just sealed with paint.

[Richard the old one]

If you still have issue 200 December 2020 - January 2021 of Dolly Mixture you will be able to read the article and see the photographs on pages 9 & 10 that I produced and titled "How does water get into a Dolomite."

I will post the article below less photos.

How water can get into a Dolomite.
It took me quite a time to work out how water was finding its way into the boot and into the scuttle below the windscreen. Initially I thought the windscreen and rear window seals were leaking but in the end it turned out that there is a join in the roof gutter that was sealed at the factory but over time this sealer goes hard and cracks which then lets water in. It is then able to run both towards the front of the car and finds it’s way down the A post and on into the scuttle below the windscreen and toward the rear of the car where it runs down inside the D post and drips down onto the rear wheel arches and then goes onto both the front of the rear wheel arches and into the boot of the car.
Tony Burd was working on replacing the roof on one of his cars and very kindly posted the following photograph (See photo Cut away section of roof showing the gutter arrangement). This shows both the outer gutter that is seen from the outside and the inner arrangement along which any water that gets past the sealant can flow as stated above.


There is a need also to check the gutter seal as it goes down the A post. The following photo shows, where the seal had failed on my Carmine red dolomite. See photo Roof gutter by front windscreen.



James 467 also advised us on Facebook that he made a point of using a good seal sealer to seal the gutter as he was aware of the problem plus he went onto state that he had noted that another leak path into the car was through the holes that are used to secure the stainless steel trim pieces that are fitted on the lower edge of the D pillars. I have also noted this problem and have run some black silicon along the top of the stainless steel strips an my cars in the hope that this will stop any water getting behind the trim, as the D pillar is either painted black or covered in black vinyl it does not show up. See photo (D post chrome trim sealed)





While we are considering the roof another area that can quite often let water in is the rear edge of the roof. I believe that there two ways and possibly three ways that water can enter into this area.
1. The clips that hold the stainless steel trim on the rear edge of the roof can cause rust to start which in due course allows water to enter the area. I think if I have to take the stainless steel trim off I will bed that in with some silicon sealant to reduce the possibility of water being able to get inside the car.
2. There is obviously a join between the roof and the vent panel which needs to be sealed and again the sealant I suspect may fail with the passage of time.
3. The actual vents are not sealed in the panel. When I removed and refitted my vents I have bedded them in with some silicon sealant.
The following sketch shows how the water flows: For clarity I have only shown one side. See photo Dolomite rain tracks


Moving further back as water runs off the boot it tends to flow around the rear light clusters so I have added some black silicon sealant along the top of my light clusters as back up to the rubber seals that are fitted between the light clusters and the car body. Being black it is not very noticeable and does not have to be disturbed to change any failed light bulbs as they are removed from inside the boot. The next thing that water off the boot comes into contact with is another stainless steel strip and it took me a long time to find that the fixings or at least one was allowing a small amount of water to enter the boot. Again a bit of rust had opened up the fixing hole enough to allow water to enter. It then flowed across the rear of the car and down the side of the wing unseen before it appeared on the side of the boot floor by the rear wheel arch, exactly at the same place as water coming in from the leaking roof gutter appeared in the boot.
Moving to the engine compartment. The air vent plenum chamber has a number of drain slots, which are designed to allow any water that enters via the air vent slots that are cut in the bonnet to drain out but the slots are not very big and easily become blocked. They also are designed so that the water runs down behind the engine bulkhead sound lagging which makes it an ideal place for rust to start, which is not seen. The first the car owner knows of the problem is when he finds water in the front foot wells. I have found that if you stretch some polythene sheeting over the top of the plenum chamber or chambers before you shut the bonnet it is possible to prevent rain water entering the plenum chambers and so confirm this is the problem and not a leaking windscreen or the roof gutter seal. This can only be done when the car is not being used as it prevents the windscreen washer jets operating. I even now do it when I am not using one of my cars for a long period and it is just standing on the drive so that I know that any rain water is not being channelled down behind the engine bulkhead soundproofing.
The following couple of photographs show some of the drain channels on the engine bulkead. The yellow marker shows the waters drain path. See photo’s Off side drain holes and Nearside drain holes.




The June 2020 edition of Practical Classics contained the following tip from Peter Harris who wrote “After a few flooded BL cars, our dealership discovered the most common cause was the windscreen wiper mounts.” This is something I have also found is worth checking before blaming the windscreen seal. A couple of my cars have suffered to a relatively minor extent from this problem and I have resolved the problem by putting a small bead of sealant around the mount. See photo wiper mount

[cleverusername]

I have sealed the whole length of the gutters with builders sealant and so far it seems to have cured the problem. Sat in the car when it was raining and couldn't see any water coming in. Checked again in the morning and no puddles.

Not going to put the dash back in yet, had too many false dawns with this problem. I am going to wait for heavy rain to be certain I have cured it.

Then it will be reassembly and trying to cure the engine problem.