Rear brake auto(non-)adjusters

[yorkshire_spam]

Right... as far as I can see the adjusters are fitted on the correct sides, they are greased and free moving, the adjuster arms move when the hand-brake is applied.
Any yet.... every time I check the adjustment on the rears (usually just after the MOT when the tester comments on them) I find they need the slack taking up. Then for a week or two the rears are great. And then they go back to too slack.

Any ideas?

[geeksteve]

Do you have the little H pieces? If not it wont work properly.

Also, unless your hand brake releases all the way it wont allow the adjuster to click (try moving the lever on the drum with the cable disconnected and see if you get the clicks).

Having said that, mine never bloody work either

[yorkshire_spam]

H pieces are in place, I'll have a faff with the drums on and see if I can hear the clicking. Thanks!

[DoloWIGHTY]

Sounds like a classic example of wear in the end of the actuating fingers/levers.

An old school mechanic told me that when the cars were current they used to take the leavers off, build up the ends with weld and then file them back to profile. This would work for a while and then it would begin all over again.

I had the same on my 1850 and was lucky enough to purchase the last two brand new ones that Mick Dolphin had in stock (I believe they are also fitted to the GT6).

[Magenta Auto Sprint]

Have to had somebody operate the handbrake while you watch the brake show adjuster with the drum off?

Malcolm

[matt of the vivas]

Have you got the adjuster wheels on the right side, they are handed and if you get them wrong the brakes will actually deadjust themselves instead of taking up the slack.

[Bumpa]

They are a crap design for sure. Has anyone changed them to manually adjust? How?

[Carledo]

They are a crap design for sure. Has anyone changed them to manually adjust? How?

The easy way is to drill a hole in the backplate so you can stick a screwdriver through and adjust them manually without removing wheels or drums.

Alternatively, it'd probably be possible to drill out the rivets retaining the top shoe stop bracket on the backplate and sub in a generic Girling manual adjuster, though this might involve taking an angle grinder to the shoes to make an extra bit of space. Not so much of a problem for nowadays, as shoes probably last for donkeys years with the low mileages covered, the average lifespan of a set of shoes is usually in excess of 100,000 miles. More are changed prematurely due to fluid contamination than ever wear out!

Another thought would be to sub in the manual adjust backplate and shoes etc from a 1300 or Toledo. I haven't even offered this up to try, the backplate would need redrilling for sure but don't know if other measurement discrepancies would make it impractical.

Steve

[yorkshire_spam]

They are a crap design for sure. Has anyone changed them to manually adjust? How?

The easy way is to drill a hole in the backplate so you can stick a screwdriver through and adjust them manually without removing wheels or drums.

Alternatively, it'd probably be possible to drill out the rivets retaining the top shoe stop bracket on the backplate and sub in a generic Girling manual adjuster, though this might involve taking an angle grinder to the shoes to make an extra bit of space. Not so much of a problem for nowadays, as shoes probably last for donkeys years with the low mileages covered, the average lifespan of a set of shoes is usually in excess of 100,000 miles. More are changed prematurely due to fluid contamination than ever wear out!

Another thought would be to sub in the manual adjust backplate and shoes etc from a 1300 or Toledo. I haven't even offered this up to try, the backplate would need redrilling for sure but don't know if other measurement discrepancies would make it impractical.

Steve

They are that much of a PITA I've been wondering about whether a GT6/Vitesse backplate can be fitted in place, I've been looking at shoe widths/diameters to see what's close to the originals on the 1850 but with a manual adjuster.
Looking at the original backplate I think the pressing would make fitting a manual adjuster directly impractical.

[yorkshire_spam]

Have you got the adjuster wheels on the right side, they are handed and if you get them wrong the brakes will actually deadjust themselves instead of taking up the slack.

As far as I can tell, but who knows for sure?
Should the hand-brake operated arm push the adjuster as the brake is applied or as it's released?

[Carledo]

They are a crap design for sure. Has anyone changed them to manually adjust? How?

The easy way is to drill a hole in the backplate so you can stick a screwdriver through and adjust them manually without removing wheels or drums.

Alternatively, it'd probably be possible to drill out the rivets retaining the top shoe stop bracket on the backplate and sub in a generic Girling manual adjuster, though this might involve taking an angle grinder to the shoes to make an extra bit of space. Not so much of a problem for nowadays, as shoes probably last for donkeys years with the low mileages covered, the average lifespan of a set of shoes is usually in excess of 100,000 miles. More are changed prematurely due to fluid contamination than ever wear out!

Another thought would be to sub in the manual adjust backplate and shoes etc from a 1300 or Toledo. I haven't even offered this up to try, the backplate would need redrilling for sure but don't know if other measurement discrepancies would make it impractical.

Steve

They are that much of a PITA I've been wondering about whether a GT6/Vitesse backplate can be fitted in place, I've been looking at shoe widths/diameters to see what's close to the originals on the 1850 but with a manual adjuster.
Looking at the original backplate I think the pressing would make fitting a manual adjuster directly impractical.

I was thinking mainly about how the Toledo style backplate would match a Sprint axle case, which is a different kettle of fish altogether to Binny's 1850 unit.

The Toledo and 1850 axle cases are identical, so the Toledo manual adjust backplates along with cylinders, shoes, drums etc should swap over as a bolt on. Twill be a PITA cos you have to pull the half shafts to do it and it will pay to investigate different bores of wheel cylinder to get something matching the 1850s, fortunately the manual adjust cylinder is present on all the small chassis cars up to about 73 or so (I think ONLY the GT6 III got the self adjusters and maybe the last 1500 Spits, have to check that) so there's plenty of choice, maybe a Vitesse II cylinder would be good.

GT6 I and II had a larger diameter rear drum than any of the other small chassis cars whilst still retaining manual adjustment. Whether this is the SAME drum and backplate/shoes as the Toledo or whether the Toledo is smaller I couldn't say, my GT6 and Toledo ownership failed to overlap by more than 20 years!

Steve

You may well end up with a smaller diameter drum and littler shoes, but it's not that much change in overall braking effort, with the rear brakes not doing much anyway. Get some TJs and you'll be well away!

[yorkshire_spam]

I was thinking mainly about how the Toledo style backplate would match a Sprint axle case, which is a different kettle of fish altogether to Binny's 1850 unit.

The Toledo and 1850 axle cases are identical, so the Toledo manual adjust backplates along with cylinders, shoes, drums etc should swap over as a bolt on. Twill be a PITA cos you have to pull the half shafts to do it and it will pay to investigate different bores of wheel cylinder to get something matching the 1850s, fortunately the manual adjust cylinder is present on all the small chassis cars up to about 73 or so (I think ONLY the GT6 III got the self adjusters and maybe the last 1500 Spits, have to check that) so there's plenty of choice, maybe a Vitesse II cylinder would be good.

GT6 I and II had a larger diameter rear drum than any of the other small chassis cars whilst still retaining manual adjustment. Whether this is the SAME drum and backplate/shoes as the Toledo or whether the Toledo is smaller I couldn't say, my GT6 and Toledo ownership failed to overlap by more than 20 years!

Steve

You may well end up with a smaller diameter drum and littler shoes, but it's not that much change in overall braking effort, with the rear brakes not doing much anyway. Get some TJs and you'll be well away!

It looks like (as far as I can see) GBS815 Toledo shoes are for the same diameter/width drums as GBS746 Dolomite shoes - 8" x 1.5"

Already running TJs on the front!

[bazyerma]

Hi All

All I can say is my disc conversion has one upside, other than looking cool, The hand brake is far better and even can do handbrake turns

Sorry about my silly joke, couldnt help myself, carry on with really helpful answers!

FYI Looks better now I put new cables on and modified the links shorter!

Regards

Barry

[matt of the vivas]

Take the drums off and work the handbrake levers. Watch and see if the adjuster threads increase in length - which is correct and means they are taking up the slack - or decrease in which case they are on the wrong sides.
You will need to manually deadjust them back again to get the drums back on!
Contrary to popular belief - the auto adjusters do work fine if they are in good condition and everything is set up correctly.
Matt.

[Mad Mart]

If the adjusters are on the wrong sides you can easily tell because of the ratchet mechanism. If they are on the wrong sides the arm will just glide over the ratchet. I have literally just had this problem on the project I'm working on.