Dolomite Sprint Tyres

[yorkshire_spam]

The sooner it becomes law that tyres have to be under 7 years old the better.

who`s going to police it?

Simple, MoT, plus simple advert/media. Make it crystal clear, and get some of the hopelessly maintained mot exempt cars checked properly. Make people pay a bit more attention.

Plus simple spot checks by the police on every traffic stop and accident they attend.

[naskeet]

I'm a family man and it's to keep the family safe. All cars have Falkens as these have a lot of grip and do their job in the wet very good way above avarage. Actually the best I have ever driven and in my career I tried and experienced a lot of different makes over the years.

The now gone Corolla but also the Dolomites tend to understeer in the wet, especially on roundabouts or sharp corners. The Falkens are the first that didn't slide and after fitting all cars with these all have improved significantly.

On the daily Corolla they did last about 20.000 - 25.000km what I don't mind. On the daily Dolomite I will measure. That one has covered around 10.000km on Falkens now.

I cannot speak for Dolomites, but I don’t recall ever having an under-steer problem with the Toledo, when negotiating sharp bends or roundabouts, either on dry, wet or snow-covered roads, using Uniroyal Rallye 180, 175 SR13 (i.e. 175/80 R13) or Kelly-Springfield Steelmark, 175 SR13 (i.e. 175/80 R13) or Firestone S211, 185/70 R13 tyres, but then I do tend to drive at sensible speeds. Nor have I experienced any problems with the wet-weather performance of any tyres on which I have driven; including the Michelin XZX on the 1973 VW Type 2 Transporter.

I seldom use my brakes unless I need to, preferring to rely on large following distances, anticipation of developing situations and gentle use of engine braking, which contributes to low wear rates of tyres & brake-linings, as well as giving better fuel economy.

For the benefit of our non-British members, it might be appropriate to note the IMPORTANT but subtle difference between British and European number-writing conventions, regarding the use of commas, full-stops & decimal-points.

In his recent post, Jeroen draws attention to the extremely short lifespan of his Falken car tyres, as being ONLY “about 20.000 - 25.000 km”, which according to the British convention, means 20 to 25 kilometres expressed to three decimal places. Assuming he actually means 20 to 25 thousand kilometres, this would be written as 20,000 ~ 25,000 km according to the British convention. However, according to European convention, 20,000 ~ 25,000 km means 20 to 25 kilometres expressed to three decimal places, so there is much scope for confusion! Don’t get me started on the North American conventions for writing chronological dates! Hence:

20 to 25 thousand kilometres would be written as 20,000 ~ 25,000 km according to British convention or 20.000 ~ 25.000 km according to European convention

20 to 25 kilometres expressed to three decimal places would be written as 20.000 ~ 25.000 km or 20•000 ~ 25•000 km according to British convention or 20,000 ~ 25,000 km according to European convention

British 20,000 ~ 25,000 km => European 20.000 ~ 25.000 km

European 20,000 ~ 25,000 km => British 20.000 ~ 25.000 km or 20•000 ~ 25•000 km

It’s almost as bad as people quoting volumetric capacities in gallons, without specifying whether they are US gallons or Imperial gallons. Similarly, quoting temperatures in just “degrees” without specifying which of FIVE different temperature scales (i.e. Celcius, Kelvin, Fahrenheit, Rankine or Reamur) is being used, is even more vexing!

https://www.britannica.com/science/Rank ... ture-scale

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankine_scale

https://www.britannica.com/science/Reau ... ture-scale

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Réaumur_scale

If Jeroen’s tyres were wearing out after only circa 20,000 ~ 25,000 kilometres (i.e. 12,500 ~ 15,625 miles), they must have been extremely poor-quality tyres OR he is a terrible driver, who is inconsiderate to both his car & tyres! If I had experienced that wear rate, I would have seriously considered contacting the Trading Standards Authority (with whom I have had previous dealings; both personally and professionally), to investigate this product as being of non-merchantable quality that was unfit for purpose, under the “Sale of Goods Act”!

Many of you regard the Triumph Toledo & Dolomite as low-mileage hobby cars, that are brought out solely for high days & holidays during favourable weather, but since May 1975, I have always regarded the 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 “HL Special” as an all-season, all-weather (e.g. –10 ~ +30 ºC, bright sunshine, grey overcast, pitch-black night, torrential rain, fog, frost & snow) daily driver, whenever I needed a car for transport to university or work; except when it was more practical & cost-effective to use public transport or impractical to drive for various reasons.

Apart from my father’s 1986 Ford Sierra XR4x4 which I drove from time to time on family journeys from mid-1987 until the early-2000s, occasional sporadic use of various work vehicles (cars, vans & lorries) between mid-1976 and late-1989, and about 1¼ miles of driving a 2007 SEAT Leon Cupra 20V Turbo (which I wouldn’t have even if you paid me!), the 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 “HL Special” has been the most-modern vehicle I have driven on a regular basis! If I were ever to replace it with something more modern, I would not contemplate anything manufactured after the late-1980s or early-1990s.

The 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 “HL Special” and the 1973 model-year VW “1600” Type 2 Westfalia Continental motor-caravan, have been almost exclusively maintained and overhauled by me since the mid-1970s, as a mostly self-taught DIY mechanic (although I do have an advanced technical background in physical sciences and engineering), and there have been very few people or professional automotive workshops of my acquaintance, whom I would trust to do the work in my stead. Both vehicles have VERY SELDOM failed MOT inspections (typically for minor things which were easily rectified) and received only a few advisory notes.

The sooner it becomes law that tyres have to be under 7 years old the better.

who`s going to police it?

Simple, MoT, plus simple advert/media. Make it crystal clear, and get some of the hopelessly maintained mot exempt cars checked properly. Make people pay a bit more attention.

Discarding perfectly serviceable tyres, which still have more than adequate tread, simply because of their chronological age, is fiscally and environmentally irresponsible; much the same as discarding perfectly edible food, simply because it has reached its arbitrary “use by date”, “sell by date” or even “best before date”, which many people seem to do, without giving it a second thought!

Tyre ageing, in common with human-skin ageing, depends upon several factors, including the tyre compound formulation, exposure to heat, ultra-violet radiation, ozone, oily substances, organic solvents, long-term static loads, overloading, under-inflation and possibly others I have yet to consider.

Besides that, I strongly suspect that the traffic police have more than enough demands placed on their available time & resources, without having to enforce arbitrary tyre-age regulations, including checking spare tyres that might be relatively inaccessible, and which would not currently be included as part of the MOT inspection’s existing requirements. I wonder how many cars, classic or modern, with substitute or factory-fitted alloy wheels, have a spare tyre on a steel wheel that are both as old as the car and probably not matching the other tyres!?! I have always chosen where possible, to wear out and replace a complete set of five identical tyres!

In addition to the decline in tyre choice & availability arising from there being fewer cars requiring obsolete tyre sizes, a tyre chronological-age cut-off scheme might also exacerbate or introduce additional consequences as follows; another example of the law of unintended consequences:

• Smaller, local tyre factors will cease to stock low-demand, classic-car tyres owing to slow stock turnover and associated long storage periods that would constitute a large proportion of their legal service life (e.g. 7 years from date of manufacture);
• Tyres in obsolete sizes will only be available in a limited number of brands & models, in sizes & speed ratings that are almost exclusively applicable to only a diminishing number of classic cars;
• Tyres in obsolete sizes for classic cars will become relatively expensive, compared to the tyre sizes of high-demand & rapid stock turnover, for recently manufactured cars, which typically have wheels of larger diameter than most cars that were manufactured during the 1960s to 1980s;
• Tyres in obsolete sizes will only be manufactured in small batches to order, from a few large-scale, mail-order tyre suppliers or specialist classic-car tyre suppliers, who will then have even greater control over retail pricing.

These are at least some of the reasons, why I have elected to replace my Triumph Toledo’s current 5½ x 13 inch Triumph Dolomite Sprint alloy wheels (35 mm wheel-offset) & 185/70 R13 tyres, with 5½ x 15 inch MG 2000 Maestro alloy wheels (31 mm wheel-offset) and either 185/65 R15, 185/60 R15 or 185/55 R15 tyres that will probably be widely available for many years to come; the 185/65 R15 currently being the most readily available of the three.

Tyres are one of several components & systems that I have long examined regularly and rigorously maintained; which in addition to weekly inflation-pressure checks, typically involved removing the wheels at the 3, 6 & 12 thousand mile service intervals to completely wash them, examine the sidewalls & tread for damage or ageing and to remove any stones or other inclusions from the tread grooves & sipes. I am well acquainted with the outward visual signs of tyre ageing, which in extreme cases typically exhibit crazing & granularity of the sidewalls and/or cracking of the tread; none of which have so far appeared on the circa 44~45 year old Michelin XZX 185 SR14 Reinforced radial-ply tyres.

During the first half of 1981, I was obliged to replace all of the 1974 Triumph Toledo’s 175 SR13 (i.e. 175/80 R13) Uniroyal Rallye 180 tyres owing to extreme ageing, that were fitted to its “original” 5½ x 13 inch Cosmic alloy wheels (21 mm wheel-offset), which were already on the car when my father bought it in mid-May 1975 from Mann Egerton, as an ex-demonstrator with less than 4,500 miles on the “clock”, that had been registered six months earlier in mid-November 1974. After circa 6~6½ years of being on the car, the tread had started to delaminate from the Uniroyal Rallye 180 tyres and was coming off in large chunks!

Typically, when our 1973 model-year, VW 1600 Type 2 Westfalia Continental motor-caravan was not in use during late-autumn, winter & early-spring, it was laid-up in a cool, dark, dry, well-ventilated garage; jacked-up on axle stands, with the wheels off the ground, which were virtually ideal conditions for tyre storage. The moral of this story, is that one should NOT judge the serviceability of a tyre or other rubber components, solely on the basis of their chronological age.

The VW motor-caravan was used for six long European touring holidays to France, Switzerland, Scandinavia (i.e. Denmark, Norway & Sweden), Austria, Hungary, Czechoslovakia & Ireland, during the summers of 1978, 1980, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1987 & 1989, at which time the Michelin XZX 185 SR14 Reinforced radial-ply tyres were circa 0~1, 2~3, 4~5, 5~6, 7~8, 9~10 & 11~12 years old respectively.

During early-October 1990 to late-March 1991, I used the VW motor-caravan for weekend trips home to Canvey Island, Essex, from RMCS – Royal Military College of Science, in Shrivenham, near Swindon, Wiltshire. By then, the Michelin XZX 185 SR14 Reinforced radial-ply tyres were circa 12½~14 years old and still providing the same sterling performance that they had when new!

On one occasion, coming around the sweeping bend under power at 50 mph, on the intersection between the anti-clockwise section of the M25 and northbound section of the M40 towards Oxford, a Ford Sierra that was following me, drastically reduced speed; perhaps because he thought a Sierra would be unable to negotiate that bend at 50 mph!?! The > 1•3 tonne, high-sided, 1973 VW Transporter, with its fully-independent front & rear suspension and rear-mounted, 50 horsepower, VW Type 1 style air-cooled engine, comfortably rounded that bend with no complaint from the tyres, negligible body-roll and no hint of over-steer or under-steer.

The vehicle was equally poised on the bendy roads between Oxford and Shrivenham, following the A34 via Marcham, Frilford & Kingston Bagpuize and then the A420. With its pair of 7 inch diameter, 100/80W H4 quartz-halogen headlamps, one could make good progress on those unlit rural roads at night! The 1973 VW Transporter is really quite agile, when one understands its idiosyncrasies and knows how to drive it properly! With the substitute, circa 90 horsepower, VW Type 4 style air-cooled engine, plus 65-Series, 215/65 R16C or 205/65 R16C tyres, and both front & rear suspension anti-roll bars, it will be even more of a drivers’ car!

When the VW motor-caravan was last used for a British touring holiday in mid-to-late 1992, the tyres were already at least 14~15 years old having been fitted to the vehicle in circa 1977/78, but still looked virtually new. Not knowing how long had elapsed between the tyres being manufactured and them being fitted, they could have been 16 years old, given that the XZX model was introduced by Michelin in 1976. The tyres still appeared to be in excellent condition when the VW motor-caravan was relocated from Canvey Island, Essex to South Benfleet, Essex in late 2002, when they were at least 24~25 years old.

The 1973 model-year, VW 1600 Type 2 Westfalia Continental motor-caravan was manufactured in circa late-August or early-September 1972 and first registered in Manchester, England, in late-November 1972. My father bought the vehicle second-hand for £1,450 in January 1975, with circa 29,000 miles on the “clock”, from an Australian hospital doctor, working in Manchester, England, whom we had encountered on a campsite in southern Greece, whilst on holiday in September 1974.

One presumes that the original 7.00 - 14 8PR cross-ply tyres were relatively new when fitted at the Volkswagen factory in Hannover during Autumn 1972. Sometime after my father bought the vehicle, he replaced two of the tyres (one had developed a sidewall bulge almost the size of a half tennis ball – appeared whilst in the hands of the audio entertainment fitters, but it’s a story linked to my first solo drive, nearly 14 months after I passed my driving test in mid-1974 at the age of 18½) with India brand, 7.00 - 14 Commercial-Van cross-ply tyres.

Given its mileage, I cannot be sure that the VW motor-caravan’s other tyres were those that had originally been factory-fitted, but by 1977/78 the remaining three 7.00 14 8PR cross-ply tyres that were on the vehicle when my father bought it, had aged after no more than 5~5½ years, to the extent that they failed the annual MOT inspection, so we decided to upgrade the vehicle from cross-ply to radial-ply tyres and sell off the two nearly-new, part-worn India brand cross-ply tyres.

Although it is financially beneficial to me, to have two MOT-exempt vehicles, I was never in favour of any road-going vehicles being MOT exempt, simply because so many vehicles of any age are poorly maintained. If we think we are hard done by, having an annual MOT inspection after three years, consider the New Zealanders, who must submit vehicles less than 3 years old to an annual WoF – Warrant of Fitness inspection, which becomes a six-monthly inspection for vehicles more than 3 years old. Police can issue a non-compliance & immediate-immobilisation notice for any vehicle they find being used on the public highway, which does not comply with WoF requirements (including a ground clearance that must be not less than 100 mm when fully laden) and has anything more than modest sanctioned modifications without separate specialised certification, even if it has a current WoF certificate.

To drive the vehicle and/or remove the large coloured window sticker, before the faults and/or unsanctioned modifications are rectified & certified, carries a hefty fine of several hundred New Zealand dollars. New Zealand traffic law has a whole raft of motoring offences and penalties, that don’t exist in Great Britain, including tail-gating, failure to stop within the available distance, failure to keep in lane, illegal lane changing and a few others for good measure. They’re also very hot on drink-driving and speeding. Exceeding standing or short-term temporary speed limits by 40 km/h (i.e. 25 mph) or more, results in one’s vehicle (irrespective of who owns it) being immediately impounded and immediate suspension of one’s driving licence, so getting home could pose a problem!

[killysprint]

Blimey, if Jeroen is a terrible driver at only being able to achieve around 12,000 miles (or 12.000 miles if your European), out of a set of tyres, god only knows what I'm classed as when I used to get 4,000 miles (4.000 miles Jeroen), if I was lucky from the fronts on my fortunately company Volvo 850 T5, and generally get 2,000 miles (just to remind our European readers that's 2.000 miles) out of a set of rears on the 911, which is driven in an energetic fashion.

Moving on, with all of the thought, conjecture, time and effort that has be expended on, the choice of wheels, tyres, additional instrumentation, larger radiator and other assorted paraphernalia that has been points of discussion over the years - I very much look forward to seeing the 1300 HL Special / Sprint Hybrid under its own power on the road, and the reports on how the "improvements" enhance the driving experience.

An update on the current status of the project with some pictures would I'm sure be very much appreciated by the forum community.

[cliftyhanger]

I cannot speak for Dolomites, but I don’t recall ever having an under-steer problem with the Toledo, when negotiating sharp bends or roundabouts, either on dry, wet or snow-covered roads, using Uniroyal Rallye 180, 175 SR13 (i.e. 175/80 R13) or Kelly-Springfield Steelmark, 175 SR13 (i.e. 175/80 R13) or Firestone S211, 185/70 R13 tyres, but then I do tend to drive at sensible speeds. Nor have I experienced any problems with the wet-weather performance of any tyres on which I have driven; including the Michelin XZX on the 1973 VW Type 2 Transporter.



If Jeroen’s tyres were wearing out after only circa 20,000 ~ 25,000 kilometres (i.e. 12,500 ~ 15,625 miles), they must have been extremely poor-quality tyres OR he is a terrible driver, who is inconsiderate to both his car & tyres! If I had experienced that wear rate, I would have seriously considered contacting the Trading Standards Authority (with whom I have had previous dealings; both personally and professionally), to investigate this product as being of non-merchantable quality that was unfit for purpose, under the “Sale of Goods Act”!

Many of you regard the Triumph Toledo & Dolomite as low-mileage hobby cars, that are brought out solely for high days & holidays during favourable weather, but since May 1975, I have always regarded the 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 “HL Special” as an all-season, all-weather (e.g. –10 ~ +30 ºC, bright sunshine, grey overcast, pitch-black night, torrential rain, fog, frost & snow) daily driver, whenever I needed a car for transport to university or work; except when it was more practical & cost-effective to use public transport or impractical to drive for various reasons.


Discarding perfectly serviceable tyres, which still have more than adequate tread, simply because of their chronological age, is fiscally and environmentally irresponsible; much the same as discarding perfectly edible food, simply because it has reached its arbitrary “use by date”, “sell by date” or even “best before date”, which many people seem to do, without giving it a second thought!

Tyre ageing, in common with human-skin ageing, depends upon several factors, including the tyre compound formulation, exposure to heat, ultra-violet radiation, ozone, oily substances, organic solvents, long-term static loads, overloading, under-inflation and possibly others I have yet to consider.





Tyres are one of several components & systems that I have long examined regularly and rigorously maintained; which in addition to weekly inflation-pressure checks, typically involved removing the wheels at the 3, 6 & 12 thousand mile service intervals to completely wash them, examine the sidewalls & tread for damage or ageing and to remove any stones or other inclusions from the tread grooves & sipes. I am well acquainted with the outward visual signs of tyre ageing, which in extreme cases typically exhibit crazing & granularity of the sidewalls and/or cracking of the tread; none of which have so far appeared on the circa 44~45 year old Michelin XZX 185 SR14 Reinforced radial-ply tyres.

During the first half of 1981, I was obliged to replace all of the 1974 Triumph Toledo’s 175 SR13 (i.e. 175/80 R13) Uniroyal Rallye 180 tyres owing to extreme ageing, that were fitted to its “original” 5½ x 13 inch Cosmic alloy wheels (21 mm wheel-offset), which were already on the car when my father bought it in mid-May 1975 from Mann Egerton, as an ex-demonstrator with less than 4,500 miles on the “clock”, that had been registered six months earlier in mid-November 1974. After circa 6~6½ years of being on the car, the tread had started to delaminate from the Uniroyal Rallye 180 tyres and was coming off in large chunks!

On one occasion, coming around the sweeping bend under power at 50 mph, on the intersection between the anti-clockwise section of the M25 and northbound section of the M40 towards Oxford, a Ford Sierra that was following me, drastically reduced speed; perhaps because he thought a Sierra would be unable to negotiate that bend at 50 mph!?! The > 1•3 tonne, high-sided, 1973 VW Transporter, with its fully-independent front & rear suspension and rear-mounted, 50 horsepower, VW Type 1 style air-cooled engine, comfortably rounded that bend with no complaint from the tyres, negligible body-roll and no hint of over-steer or under-steer.

The vehicle was equally poised on the bendy roads between Oxford and Shrivenham, following the A34 via Marcham, Frilford & Kingston Bagpuize and then the A420. With its pair of 7 inch diameter, 100/80W H4 quartz-halogen headlamps, one could make good progress on those unlit rural roads at night! The 1973 VW Transporter is really quite agile, when one understands its idiosyncrasies and knows how to drive it properly! With the substitute, circa 90 horsepower, VW Type 4 style air-cooled engine, plus 65-Series, 215/65 R16C or 205/65 R16C tyres, and both front & rear suspension anti-roll bars, it will be even more of a drivers’ car!



To drive the vehicle and/or remove the large coloured window sticker, before the faults and/or unsanctioned modifications are rectified & certified, carries a hefty fine of several hundred New Zealand dollars. New Zealand traffic law has a whole raft of motoring offences and penalties, that don’t exist in Great Britain, including tail-gating, failure to stop within the available distance, failure to keep in lane, illegal lane changing and a few others for good measure. They’re also very hot on drink-driving and speeding. Exceeding standing or short-term temporary speed limits by 40 km/h (i.e. 25 mph) or more, results in one’s vehicle (irrespective of who owns it) being immediately impounded and immediate suspension of one’s driving licence, so getting home could pose a problem!

A few things. The Falken tyres are fantastic, and I expect they would stop a car (or van) in half teh distance, possibly less, than your ancient Michelins. Yes, the compound is a little softer, but the wet grip is phenominal. Uniroyals are probably very similar, and again a soft compound. Well worth the tradeoff in longevity.

As to a T2 being a drivers vehicle, the couple I have driven were possibly the worst handling vehicles I have ever driven. Dreadful. And I have driven some sheds in my time. I guess it may, just may, be possible to improve the behaviour, but I cannot see them ever being regarded as "good".

When I was in New Zealand, teh traffic was all sensible, apart from the chaps who came out to play in their Jap cars in teh evenings. They did not appear (or sound) very standard, but never saw anybody get pulled by the plod. I do remember the standard of some of the roads into Auckland, I wonder if they are better now? That was 15 years ago, maybe you have been there more recently?

But please, you are suggesting that age should not be the way to end a tyres life. But testing for grip or other factors would be very expensive, so that is why I am in favour of an age limit, it is simple to impliment. Maybe you think the 1.6mm tread depth should be cahnged, or dependant on the weather conditions in which you drive? But remember, needing tyres to perform well is nothing to do with normal driving conditions, but that one time a child runs out in front of you, or in my case when you hit a patch of diesel on a damp road, only then do you wish the tyres were better, not near the end of their life. (I survived, the car didn't)

[Carledo]

But please, you are suggesting that age should not be the way to end a tyres life. But testing for grip or other factors would be very expensive, so that is why I am in favour of an age limit, it is simple to impliment. Maybe you think the 1.6mm tread depth should be cahnged, or dependant on the weather conditions in which you drive? But remember, needing tyres to perform well is nothing to do with normal driving conditions, but that one time a child runs out in front of you, or in my case when you hit a patch of diesel on a damp road, only then do you wish the tyres were better, not near the end of their life. (I survived, the car didn't)

I'm completely with you on this, don't get me wrong! I've changed hundreds of tyres on my own and customers cars over 50 years in the trade that were duff before they were so devoid of tread that they were illegal, the original Michelins still shod the rear end and spare of SWMBOS Picasso when I bought it at 6 years old and 50k on the clock, 2 years later I had to change them for cracking in tread and sidewalls though there was still over 4 mm of tread left. In the 80s, Dunlop SP4s were a trade joke, they were so prone to growing "pidgeons eggs" in the sidewalls, don't think I ever swapped one out that was treadless. I could go on all night but i won't.

Another thread about wheels I mentioned the John Brown 14s that were initally fitted to the Dolomega. 3 of these were bought in 2013 and fitted with middling quality budget tyres datemarked week 48 of 2012. Also, later in 2013, I bought a 4th JB wheel and fitted that one with a Falken dated week 33 of 2013. They are all still on the wheels today. But the CAR has only been on the road since August of 2021 and the tyes have hardly even been on the GROUND in the intervening 8 years let alone out in the sun/rain etc, have never been allowed to go flat and have, to date only covered circa 1300 road miles, not even enough to shift the little bobbles off the sidewalls! Yet there is some cracking of the sidewalls on all the budget tyres near the beads and cracking between the tread blocks on 2 of them. The Falken has fared better and still seems intact, but, had I been keeping the wheels, all 4 would have been replaced on age alone. Safety trumps economy (and even environmental responsibility) every time!

However I don't think your diesel patch example is a good one (though the careless child IS) I was unfortunate enough to hit a diesel patch myself back in the early 90s and in my GT6, newly shod with Yokohama A008s. The tyres made no difference at all, the car still completed 2 complete pirouettes before coming to rest with it's tail in the roadside bushes. The diesel patch was on the corner of a T junction where I was turning left OFF a main road, a very tight 90 degree turn, I was in second gear and most assuredly below 20mph. I barely touched the gas and it was gone! I was still extremely lucky to escape without any damage to the car (or myself) beyond a few nettles etc stuck between the bumper and body. I'd defy anyone to maintain control in that situation, a few drops of diesel is worse than sheet ice!

Steve

[soe8m]

I wouldn't say a terrible driver but using the car for what it does good.

And these things on the bonnet weren't some beauty contest awards..

Jeroen

[Carledo]

I wouldn't say a terrible driver but using the car for what it does good.

And these things on the bonnet weren't some beauty contest awards..

Jeroen

I'd ride with you any day Jeroen!

Steve

[matt of the vivas]

I'm getting to the point I despair of posting anything on the Internet. One simple question on tyres, which has been answered comprehensively by people who drive Dolomites hard in modern conditions, has descended into page after page of moronic irrelevant drivel about tyres made 40 years ago and not actually fitted to Dolomites.
No wonder people get confused.

[naskeet]

Blimey, if Jeroen is a terrible driver at only being able to achieve around 12,000 miles (or 12.000 miles if your European), out of a set of tyres, god only knows what I'm classed as when I used to get 4,000 miles (4.000 miles Jeroen), if I was lucky from the fronts on my fortunately company Volvo 850 T5, and generally get 2,000 miles (just to remind our European readers that's 2.000 miles) out of a set of rears on the 911, which is driven in an energetic fashion.

Moving on, with all of the thought, conjecture, time and effort that has be expended on, the choice of wheels, tyres, additional instrumentation, larger radiator and other assorted paraphernalia that has been points of discussion over the years - I very much look forward to seeing the 1300 HL Special / Sprint Hybrid under its own power on the road, and the reports on how the "improvements" enhance the driving experience.

An update on the current status of the project with some pictures would I'm sure be very much appreciated by the forum community.

I thought Jeroen’s ridiculously high tyre-wear rates were bad enough, but yours are almost unbelievable and I thought Jeroen’s ridiculously high tyre-wear rates were bad enough, but yours are almost unbelievable and only affordable for those who have money to burn. To what kind of use & abuse do you “boy-racer” types subject your poor unappreciated cars & tyres!?! If one treated a horse, mule, hinny or donkey that way, one would probably be convicted of animal cruelty!

Note: a mule (during World War 2, they were used extensively as pack-animals by the British “Chindits” special force in Burma; commanded by Orde Wingate) is the offspring of a male donkey and a female horse, whilst a hinny is the offspring of a male horse and a female donkey.

With those tyre wear rates on a company-car, I am surprised they didn’t relegate you to something like an FSM Serena, Trabant, Wartburg, Skoda 120, Renault 4, Citroën 2CV / Dyane, Fiat 500 & Fiat 126, or at the very least, send you on an obligatory driver re-education course. Did the company ask you to pay for the replacement cost of the tyres yourself; because I would have, had I been your line manager!?!

Back in the mid-1980s, I could have bought a second-hand 1975 Porsche 911 for £5,000, but I considered it too high a purchase price, too uneconomical and expensive to run, and in many ways inferior to my 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 “HL Special” and the family’s 1973 VW 1600 Type 2 Westfalia Continental motor-caravan.

Hopefully, you will live long enough (although if your tyre wear rates are anything to go by, I wouldn’t like to bet that you will survive that long!) to one day see the 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 “HL Special” with its various Dolomite HL & Sprint transplanted components, MG 2000 Maestro wheels, a few components from other marques & models and one or two extra-special items that most of you have probably never encountered. Someday, I might put some fresh roll of 35 mm colour-reversal film, in the 1978 vintage Olympus OM2 SLR – single-lens reflex camera (a graduation present to myself) and take a few pictures for posterity, but it’s not likely to be anytime soon.

In the meantime, keep your eyes open for further updates to the continuing saga which started in May 1975. After one has owned & driven a Triumph Toledo 1300 “HL Special”, which is elegant, comfortable, economical, reliable, easy to drive & maintain, and not overburdened with excess power, why would anyone want to drive any other car!?!

Board index » The Triumph Dolomite Club » Dolomite-related [Start here!] » 40+ Years With A 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 “HL Special”

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The vehicle was equally poised on the bendy roads between Oxford and Shrivenham, following the A34 via Marcham, Frilford & Kingston Bagpuize and then the A420. With its pair of 7 inch diameter, 100/80W H4 quartz-halogen headlamps, one could make good progress on those unlit rural roads at night! The 1973 VW Transporter is really quite agile, when one understands its idiosyncrasies and knows how to drive it properly! With the substitute, circa 90 horsepower, VW Type 4 style air-cooled engine, plus 65-Series, 215/65 R16C or 205/65 R16C tyres, and both front & rear suspension anti-roll bars, it will be even more of a drivers’ car!

A few things. The Falken tyres are fantastic, and I expect they would stop a car (or van) in half the distance, possibly less, than your ancient Michelins. Yes, the compound is a little softer, but the wet grip is phenominal. Uniroyals are probably very similar, and again a soft compound. Well worth the tradeoff in longevity.

As to a T2 being a drivers vehicle, the couple I have driven were possibly the worst handling vehicles I have ever driven. Dreadful. And I have driven some sheds in my time. I guess it may, just may, be possible to improve the behaviour, but I cannot see them ever being regarded as "good".

When I was in New Zealand, the traffic was all sensible, apart from the chaps who came out to play in their Jap cars in the evenings. They did not appear (or sound) very standard, but never saw anybody get pulled by the plod. I do remember the standard of some of the roads into Auckland, I wonder if they are better now? That was 15 years ago, maybe you have been there more recently?

You would be hard pressed to exceed the limit of the Michelin XZX tyres’ grip, when applying the brakes of a factory-standard 1971~79 VW 1600 Type 2 with front disc brakes and NO vacuum servo assistance; unless you were applying both feet to the brake pedal to perform an emergency stop, but I retro-fitted ATE – Alfred Teves twin remote-acting vacuum servos during the winter of 1988/89, which makes life a lot easier. I would be interested to see you substantiate your assertion regarding the relative stopping distance of Falken versus classic Michelin XZX tyres!

Had my circa 1974/75 vintage, 6~6½ year old Uniroyal Rallye 180 tyres not suffered from so-called ageing, there would have been no longevity trade-off necessary, because I am gentle with my accelerator, brakes and steering, which minimises tread-wear rates as well as fuel-consumption rates! Based on the amount of tread used and the amount of tread remaining when the tyres suffered tread delamination, the five tyres should otherwise have been quite capable of managing at least 30,000 miles each if not more.

Board index » The Triumph Dolomite Club » Dolomite-related [Start here!] » 40+ Years With A 1974 Triumph Toledo 1300 “HL Special”

Delaminating Tyre Treads! – Mid-1981

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29933&p=316488#p316488

It appears “cliftyhanger” that you might NOT have the right mind-set or the appropriate hands & feet to be a 1968~79 VW Type 2 Transporter driver! Given the “wrong hands & feet” they will handle badly, but in the right hands, it’s truly amazing how well they perform for a high-sided, high-ground-clearance, rear-engined, rear-wheel drive vehicle, which responds well to the use of left-foot braking; heeling & toeing being impractical owing to the very-large height disparity between the accelerator and brake pedals. The battery-powered milk floats that I drove during one of my best-paid university-summer-vacation jobs as a relief milkman in 1978 & 1979, might reasonably be described as poorly-handling vehicles; although their 0~5 mph acceleration capabilities were astounding!

You should have been in Loch Gilphead, Argyl, in Summer 1976, to witness our 1973 VW 1600 Type 2 motor-caravan (still shod on 7.00 – 14 cross-ply tyres) being taken for a test drive, swooping around the country-lane bends of western Scotland, driven by the legendary Robert Henderson, after retro-fitting and setting up the Minnow Fish carburettor & ignition timing, using the rolling-road dynamometer!

https://driventowrite.com/2022/04/22/th ... 1932-2022/

https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/auto ... argyll-gt/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articl ... -highlands

https://gb.kompass.com/c/minnow-fish-ca ... b55131811/

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/new-brit ... team-nessy

https://www.historicvws.org.uk/minnowfishcarbs

https://forums.autosport.com/topic/2013 ... -very-odd/

I have yet to make the pilgrimage to New Zealand, where my father briefly emigrated during the late-1940s; working initially as a draftsman with the New Zealand post office in Wellington. We nearly moved during the early-1970s to Ashburton, on the Canterbury Plane of South Island, when my father enquired about joining a GP medical practice there. In circa 2005/06, I negotiated a contract between OEDES in Minnesota, USA and Braiden International (a company which modifies vehicles for disabled drivers) in New Zealand, for the sale of after-market, Raintracker RT50 rain-sensing windscreen-wiper controller kits (can be retro-fitted to Triumph Toledos & Dolomites and 1968~79 VW Type 2 Transporters), so I have been there in spirit, if not in person

https://www.gentlegiant.co.nz

https://rainsensors.com/2015/11/10/rt/

https://www.branz.co.nz/about/

I am hoping one of my old university-friends who is married to a kiwi nurse, might extend an invitation to visit for a while, when they get around to developing the land plot they bought there a few years ago. Hopefully, it would help to minimise accommodation costs, which could otherwise be exceedingly expensive. To make a visit there cost-effective, I would need to go for at least a few months, but a one-year working holiday, ideally in the form of a sabbatical at one of New Zealand’s universities, such as the University of Otago in Dunedin, where one of their departments has research interests similar to things I have studied and researched in the past, in the university & industrial sectors.

https://www.otago.ac.nz

https://www.otago.ac.nz/news/news/otago610388.html

https://www.otago.ac.nz/news/news/otago833326.html

https://www.otago.ac.nz/wellington/depa ... 24042.html

https://www.otago.ac.nz/otagobulletin/n ... 80919.html

https://www.otago.ac.nz/international/f ... al-advice/

Judging from your assessment of New Zealand drivers, I presume you haven’t been watching the New Zealand police television-documentary series, entitled “Motorway Patrol” and “Highway Cops”, screened on British Freeview Channel 36 (i.e. Pick), which is real eye-opener, including the “boy-racer” fraternity in various cars, of which some are the poorly modified, over-powered Japanese cars you mentioned!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorway_Patrol

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/tvnz-corporate-c ... nz-4880728

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/motorway-patrol

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/highway-cops

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5328368/

https://www.greenstonetv.com/our-progra ... hway-cops/

But please, you are suggesting that age should not be the way to end a tyres life. But testing for grip or other factors would be very expensive, so that is why I am in favour of an age limit, it is simple to impliment. Maybe you think the 1.6mm tread depth should be changed, or dependant on the weather conditions in which you drive? But remember, needing tyres to perform well is nothing to do with normal driving conditions, but that one time a child runs out in front of you, or in my case when you hit a patch of diesel on a damp road, only then do you wish the tyres were better, not near the end of their life. (I survived, the car didn't)

Signs of deterioration, of the various different rubber-compounds, that make up the different parts of a tyre, are justifiable reasons for rejecting & replacing a tyre at any chronological age, but although chronological age might be justification for not buying & fitting a new-old-stock tyre, I contend that chronological age alone, is not justification for rejecting & replacing an existing tyre which has provided reliable service up to that juncture.

Contrary to what you might believe, I would not favour reducing the minimum wear limit from 1•6 mm (specified in 1992) to the previous minimum wear limit of 1•0 mm. Of course, in a country that NEVER has rain, frost or snow, it might be more appropriate to specify slick tyres. It’s well recognised that well-worn tread below 2•0 mm tread-depth, significantly increases one’s stopping distance, when there is a lot of surface water on the road.

If there are unrestrained child pedestrians visible in the area where you are driving, or the possibility of concealed (e.g. owing to the presence of stationary buses or parked vehicles) unrestrained child pedestrians, particularly around the times they go to and return from school, then it would be appropriate for you to drive more slowly and leave larger following distances. Remember that the speed-limits are maximum-legal-limits rather than targets and one could still be found guilty of driving at excessive speed for the prevailing conditions, even if driving below the maximum-legal-limits!

Apart from during initial driver training and official driving tests during the mid-1970s, I have only ever had to initiate emergency braking once in my life, during the evening of Tuesday, 7th January 1986, when a Kamikaze adult male cyclist, decided to turn right from his position close to the nearside curb (not the standard position from which a cyclist was or is recommended to initiate a right-hand turn!), across the path of my Triumph Toledo, as I was overtaking him with at least 2 metres clearance, without him checking behind or giving a right-turn hand signal. Even without ABS, I did not lock any of the wheels and hence left no skid marks; remembering to brake first and then implement any evasive steering manoeuvres if necessary!

Fortunately for him, whilst travelling at circa 20 mph (exercising due caution when overtaking cyclists!) on the 5 year old Kelly-Springfield Steelmark 175 SR13 tyres, I registered this manoeuvre in my peripheral vision and just nudged him gently onto the road as I came to a virtual standstill. After determining that the cyclist was uninjured, I interrogated him about why he had initiated such a dangerous manoeuvre. His reply was that he “thought” I was turning right at the junction! That misapprehension nearly cost him dearly!

In recent years, cyclists have become even more of a night-time hazard, riding dark-coloured bicycles, whilst wearing dark-coloured clothes, no lights or reflectors on the bicycle and no bell or hooter. Sometimes they ride on the wrong side of the road or more worryingly for pedestrians, on the pavements where I have nearly been run down by cyclists riding at excessive speed on the pavement, especially when approaching from behind or around a blind corner.

I wouldn't say a terrible driver but using the car for what it does good.

And these things on the bonnet weren't some beauty contest awards..

Jeroen

I presume those “things on the bonnet” were for “boy-racer” driving off-road or on a race track, rather than on the public highway!?! I hope you remove them from the bonnet when actually driving the car!

I don’t have any “beauty contest awards” either, but I did collect a few rosettes in equestrian events during my youth and had the privilege of once riding a very large ex Metropolitan police horse as well as a one-quarter thorough-bred. Much more civilised and enjoyable than driving at excessive speed in a car!

I'm getting to the point I despair of posting anything on the Internet. One simple question on tyres, which has been answered comprehensively by people who drive Dolomites hard in modern conditions, has descended into page after page of moronic irrelevant drivel about tyres made 40 years ago and not actually fitted to Dolomites.

No wonder people get confused.

It’s probably even less appropriate to drive Dolomites hard under “modern conditions”, with the higher density of traffic, even more “boy-racer” & “girl-racer” drivers on the road, the increasing incidence of pot-holes in the road surfaces and general deterioration of the road system. In the region where I live, there would be few opportunities to drive any car hard, except in the dead of night. Here, during the weekday peak commuter periods, which last several hours in both the morning and late-afternoon to late-evening, you would be lucky to average more than 10 mph.

Tyres & tyre-characteristics, are not car-model specific

[soe8m]

I presume those “things on the bonnet” were for “boy-racer” driving off-road or on a race track, rather than on the public highway!?! I hope you remove them from the bonnet when actually driving the car!

To heat a pan of gluhwein and hold some cookies in the winter during a Club Triumph Tour.

Jeroen

[naskeet]

Road Safety Measures that are “SIMPLE TO IMPLEMENT”

But please, you are suggesting that age should not be the way to end a tyres life. But testing for grip or other factors would be very expensive, so that is why I am in favour of an age limit, it is simple to impliment.

It would also be relatively simple to implement an automatic cut-off age-limit for driving licences, on the grounds that as one gets older, one’s reaction times, eye sight and cognitive abilities deteriorate. An arbitrary age-limit of 66 might seem reasonable in the first instance, as this is the current age at which one can claim one’s state retirement pension and a FREE older-persons’ bus pass.

Anyone wishing to drive beyond that age, could undertake a comprehensive barrage of tests at regular intervals (a form of driver MOT inspection, initially at five-year or two-year intervals for sake of argument, which might decrease as one got older | including a retest of practical driving competence and knowledge of the current 2015 Highway Code & revisions – latest on 27th July 2022, which is already an implicit responsibility of being a licence holder) at their own expense, to prove they were still up to par. Those in the over 80-years’ age group have the second-highest incidence of road “accidents”.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/updates

At the other end of the age scale, it is also recognised that the under 25-years’ age group, has the highest incidence of road “accidents”; partly attributable to relative inexperience, but also to a large extent to their stage of brain development. This age group are more likely to be risk takers, which is said to be associated with continuing adolescent brain development, that after an average age of about 25 years, progressively comes to implicitly recognise their mortality and the potential consequences of risky behaviour, such as might continue to be absent in those with a “boy-racer” or “girl-racer” disposition. It would be relatively simple to implement an increase in the lower driving age limit from 17 years to 25 years.

With the advent of CAT scans, MRI – Magnetic Resonance Imaging and other modern scanning technology, the potential now exists to screen driving licence applicants for undesirable psychological profiles, based upon activity in the different regions of the brain when subjected to a variety of stimuli. This would enable the licencing authorities to identify those with certain undesirable characteristics or personality traits (e.g. impulsiveness, volatile-temper, those with a “boy-racer” or “girl-racer” disposition, alcohol and/or drug dependence, etc) that posed a high risk, who could either be excluded from holding driving licences or granted restricted driving licences which required that any vehicle they drive be equipped with appropriate monitoring or ignition lock-out devices. This too might become relatively simple to implement.

It’s already recognised by motor-insurance companies, that people having certain occupations pose a higher or lower risk than average, which influences the level of insurance-premium they charge; teachers & scientists (of which I am both!) being regarded as members of the low-risk category. Those in the armed forces and people with an artistic occupation, are examples of those regarded as members of the high-risk category.

It could be argued that one or more of all of these measures, would be likely to reduce the likelihood of road “accidents”!

[naskeet]

The vehicle was equally poised on the bendy roads between Oxford and Shrivenham, following the A34 via Marcham, Frilford & Kingston Bagpuize and then the A420. With its pair of 7 inch diameter, 100/80W H4 quartz-halogen headlamps, one could make good progress on those unlit rural roads at night! The 1973 VW Transporter is really quite agile, when one understands its idiosyncrasies and knows how to drive it properly! With the substitute, circa 90 horsepower, VW Type 4 style air-cooled engine, plus 65-Series, 215/65 R16C or 205/65 R16C tyres, and both front & rear suspension anti-roll bars, it will be even more of a drivers’ car!

As to a T2 being a drivers vehicle, the couple I have driven were possibly the worst handling vehicles I have ever driven. Dreadful. And I have driven some sheds in my time. I guess it may, just may, be possible to improve the behaviour, but I cannot see them ever being regarded as "good".

It appears “cliftyhanger” that you might NOT have the right mind-set or the appropriate hands & feet to be a 1968~79 VW Type 2 Transporter driver! Given the “wrong hands & feet” they will handle badly, but in the right hands, it’s truly amazing how well they perform for a high-sided, high-ground-clearance, rear-engined, rear-wheel drive vehicle, which responds well to the use of left-foot braking; heeling & toeing being impractical owing to the very-large height disparity between the accelerator and brake pedals. The battery-powered milk floats that I drove during one of my best-paid university-summer-vacation jobs as a relief milkman in 1978 & 1979, might reasonably be described as poorly-handling vehicles; although their 0~5 mph acceleration capabilities were astounding!

You should have been in Loch Gilphead in Summer 1976, to witness our 1973 VW 1600 Type 2 motor-caravan (still shod on 7.00 – 14 cross-ply tyres) being taken for a test drive, swooping around the country-lane bends of western Scotland, driven by the legendary Robert Henderson, after retro-fitting and setting up the Minnow Fish carburettor & ignition timing, using the rolling-road dynamometer!

Whilst recently reviewing some articles in an issue of Transporter Talk, that I wrote for the Volkswagen Type 2 Owners’ Club more than 10 years ago, I found the following one-page review of the purchase by Richard Hammond (an incurable “boy-racer" & “petrol-head”!!!), of a then recently-manufactured, Brazilian-built, “bay-window” VW Type 2 Transporter T2c based Danbury motor-caravan.

Nigel A. Skeet, “Another “celeb” VWT2 Campervan owner”, Transporter Talk, Issue 115, October 2011, Page 37.

« I recently learned via the Australian Kombi Club forum, that Richard Hammond, co-presenter of the BBC’s pseudo-motoring programme “Top Gear” and other TV programmes, has ordered a brand new, Brazilian built, water-cooled, “bay-window” VW 1400 Type 2 based, Danbury campervan, with pink external paintwork, costing circa £40,000, after holidaying with his family (wife Mindy and two young daughters, aged 10 & 7) in Cornwall, during Easter 2011, in a hired campervan of this type. Writing in the British Daily Mirror, which was later quoted in the Australian Daily Telegraph, Richard extolls the virtues of the “modern” Brazilian built vehicle, but makes disparaging remarks about the earlier vehicles with their venerable air-cooled engines:

“Richard Hammond in VW heaven after his Easter break in a van”, Kids & Family, Life-Style, Daily Mirror, 30th April 2011.

“Top Gear Richard Hammond falls in love with VW Campervan”, Television Entertainment, The Australian Daily Telegraph, 1st May 2011.

Hammond remarks . . . . .

« « Now it’s pretty common knowledge that old VW campervans, while tremendously evocative things to look at, tend not to work. And even if they do, they won’t go over about 5 mph. This one worked perfectly and cruised at a steady 70 mph. It’s not a replica though, not some recreation of the evocative old Boogie Bus of the 60s and 70s – it’s the real deal. But brand new. The van is made at a VW factory in Brazil and imported to the UK by Danbury Motor Caravans, based in Bristol.

They turn it into a camper in much the same way as companies have been doing since the 60s. Except of course, they have access to modern materials and equipment to turn a base van into a genuine home complete with cooker, fridge, TV and a double bed in the roof that means it can sleep four. So long as you’re not complete strangers.

Best of all, the wheezy old air-cooled engine has been replaced with a modern 1•4 litre petrol unit from a Polo – not enough to trouble hot hatches but hence the healthier cruising speeds. I idolised the Boogie Bus as an art student in the 80s when I considered setting off on the open road in a flower-painted hippy wagon to be about the coolest thing it would be possible to do. I never did it of course, and so as we trundled out of the drive, girls sitting in the back clutching teddy bears, my soul was soaring at a teenage fantasy fulfilled. » »

Most are familiar with the Italians’ love of high-performance cars and their over reliance on divine providence, regarding road safety, when driving them, so I wonder what Richard Hammond would make of the Italian specification, 1971~75 VW 1300 Type 2s, with their 44 bhp 1•3 litre air-cooled engine (M-Code 252), compared to the 1968~79 VW 1600 Type 2 and 1972~79 VW 17/18/2000 Type 2s, with their larger displacement, more powerful engines!?! Even the 1971~75 VW 1300 Type 2s, probably managed significantly more than 5 mph, even when ascending hills, in the face of howling gales! »

Although these Brazilian-built, “bay-window” VW Type 2 Transporter T2c vehicles were equipped with a more modern, water-cooled, in-line four-cylinder engine, having a higher centre of gravity and also possibly being heavier than the venerable air-cooled engines, plus the steering system swivels, featuring king-pins rather than upper & lower ball-joints, these later vehicles are probably less agile than their 1968~79 VW Type 2 predecessors, which like my 1973 VW “1600” Type 2 Westfalia Continental motor-caravan, can confidently negotiate mountain hair-pin bends, and 1 in 7½ gradient inclines, like those of the Arleberg Pass, in western Austria, over which I drove during the summer of 1985 on my way to Hungary.

https://www.dangerousroads.org/europe/a ... -pass.html

[triumphdolomiteuk]

We're calling time on this topic, it no longer has anything to do with Dolomite tyres. We would like to remind contributors of this; https://forum.triumphdolomite.co.uk/vie ... =4&t=13035