Upgrading lighting

[SprintV8]

There was a special MOT service notice March 2021.
So not many people where aware..
So perfectly legal providing other criteria is meet.
I.E. Beam,Angle,Aim,focus ETC.

There are some really cheap HID and LED headlight kits out there.
That are downright dangerous.

The more expensive kits are perfectly safe and well made in my opinion.
I’ve tried most of them.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... onversions

[GinettaG15]

There was a special MOT service notice March 2021.
So not many people where aware..
So perfectly legal providing other criteria is meet.
I.E. Beam,Angle,Aim,focus ETC.

There are some really cheap HID and LED headlight kits out there.
That are downright dangerous.

The more expensive kits are perfectly safe and well made in my opinion.
I’ve tried most of them.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... onversions

the problem is: most owners want it cheap or even cheaper.....i stay to my words from above:

a good H4 bulb in combination with a good wiring (low transition restistances, clean connectors) is more than enough.

i repeat again: most LED or HID conversions do not have the correct beam pattern, even the light may be brighter "on 1st view" the illuminated area is less AND most of those conversions are blinding OTHER motorists!!!

by the way: what you do when you have passengers on the rear seats or some goods in your boot, or even both? especially with the rather soft suspension of the dolly?

do you have a leveling-system? nope....and than it gets really dangerous!!! such "modern" lights, with a wrong height, are blinding other motorists even more!!! that is DANGEROUS!!!!

why modern cars have a self-leveling system with HID or LED? why modern cars have a washing-system with HID? and why both are MANDATORY? just for joke?

i´m really concerned why the MOT rules allow such "non-sense" conversions on older cars. really concerned.

[SprintV8]

There was a special MOT service notice March 2021.
So not many people where aware..
So perfectly legal providing other criteria is meet.
I.E. Beam,Angle,Aim,focus ETC.

There are some really cheap HID and LED headlight kits out there.
That are downright dangerous.

The more expensive kits are perfectly safe and well made in my opinion.
I’ve tried most of them.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... onversions

the problem is: most owners want it cheap or even cheaper.....i stay to my words from above:

a good H4 bulb in combination with a good wiring (low transition restistances, clean connectors) is more than enough.

i repeat again: most LED or HID conversions do not have the correct beam pattern, even the light may be brighter "on 1st view" the illuminated area is less AND most of those conversions are blinding OTHER motorists!!!

by the way: what you do when you have passengers on the rear seats or some goods in your boot, or even both? especially with the rather soft suspension of the dolly?

do you have a leveling-system? nope....and than it gets really dangerous!!! such "modern" lights, with a wrong height, are blinding other motorists even more!!! that is DANGEROUS!!!!

why modern cars have a self-leveling system with HID or LED? why modern cars have a washing-system with HID? and why both are MANDATORY? just for joke?

i´m really concerned why the MOT rules allow such "non-sense" conversions on older cars. really concerned.

Cheap isn’t better. As you say you pay for what you get.
Most Glass have the angles moulded into the glass you’ll never get the correct pattern with these.
One option is the BMW clear glass.

My Dolly is far from soft in the suspension department.
Plus at the moment is running Jaguar Cibie lights.
The headlight will also be aim slightly lower than MOT requirements
I’m still contemplating HIDs on the inner lights only.

If the vehicle is fitted with self levelling and washers they must work.
If they are not fitted they don’t need to work.
That’s the MOT rules.

[GinettaG15]

MOT rules or no Mot rules

those rules are, imo , totally wrong:

when HID´s were established in mass-produced cars it was mandatory(by law!) to have a self-leveling system.
i think the legislator had some safety concerns in mind estabishing such rules?
in the same moment a washing system became mandatory. why? even the light output was better with a clean lense, a dirty lens had massive negative-impact of the amount of light emitted.

and all those "logic" rules are now obsolete with a retrofit of such modenr lights to older cars?

so i really dont know why the MOT rules, in this specific case, arent as strict as they shoule be....with such aftermarket driving-lights you will often blind other motorists and eventually cause THEM an accident.

[soe8m]

It's in Dutch but you will manage.

https://www.facebook.com/classickabelbo ... 6502206818

Jeroen

[SprintV8]

Most Morden cars with factory fitted LED or Xenon headlights will dazzle oncoming drivers.
Not because they are incorrectly adjusted or fitted.
Simply because we where used to cars running candles as headlights.


If you want to improve your headlights.
Go for the Jaguar Cibie lights.
Wired correctly with relays then they will be a vast improvement over standard.

Forgot to mention the reflectors in the headlights also form part of the beam pattern.

[GinettaG15]

Most Morden cars with factory fitted LED or Xenon headlights will dazzle oncoming drivers.
Not because they are incorrectly adjusted or fitted.
Simply because we where used to cars running candles as headlights.


If you want to improve your headlights.
Go for the Jaguar Cibie lights.
Wired correctly with relays then they will be a vast improvement over standard.

Forgot to mention the reflectors in the headlights also form part of the beam pattern.

the first sentence is a bit of rumor, imo.

i´m driving around 31.000miles /year for business..obviousy in a modern car. my former cars had HID, the actual one LED....i never have the "feeling" that other motoritst are blinding me , neither they indicate (usually by a short headlamp-flash) that i´m blinding them.

i agree with you, that this was the case with the early HID lights...but this is meanhwile decades ago...

as conclusion this means: the automitive industry has realized this "blinding" issue in the past and worked on it.

and now somebody (Mr. Mot) says "its legal to convert an older car to HID without self-leveling, without the engineering to find the best combination of bulb and lens"...thats not logic.

[SprintV8]

Until they change the rules
Classic Cars up to 1986 can have LED or Hid conversion.
Yes we all know baldy or incorrectly fitted lights are dangerous.

VOSA who govern the rules for the MOT test have been bringing in stricter rules over the years.
And hopefully one day they will ban all aftermarket LED and HID conversions.
That day I’ll be running four Super Oscar Cibies.

I feel I’ve said enough of this matter so that’s all from me.


MOT rules at the moment regarding headlights.

4.1.4. Compliance with requirements
You must inspect all ‘mandatory’ headlamps fitted.

Mandatory headlamps consist of a matched pair of main beam headlamps and a matched pair of dipped-beam headlamps. These can be separate or a single pair of headlamps.

Lamps are matched if they:

emit light of substantially the same colour and intensity
are the same size and shape that they are symmetrical to each other
Vehicles first used before 1 January 1931 do not need headlamps.

Buses first used before 1 October 1969 only need one headlamp. If 2 are fitted, neither the main beam or dipped beams need to form matched pair.

The colour of the light headlamps emit must be one of the following:

white
predominantly white with blue tinge
yellow
In a four-headlamp system the outer headlamps do not need to emit the same colour light as the inner pair.

The precise position of lamps is not part of the inspection, but you should check visually that they are at about the same height and the same distance from each side of the vehicle.

Existing halogen headlamp units on vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1986 must not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp for light source and lamp not compatible.

This does not refer to complete replacement headlamp units which may be constructed with HID or LED light sources.

If a complete headlamp unit has been replaced with a unit that was manufactured with HID or LED light sources, it must not be failed for ‘Light source and lamp not compatible’ but it must meet all other requirements detailed in section 4 of this manual specific to the type fitted at the time of test.

You can identify HID headlamps from:

‘DCR’ mark on the headlamp lens or body
an igniter module or inverter behind the headlamp
taking a few seconds to reach full intensity
a bluish tinge to the light
HID headlamps use high voltage. You should take care when inspecting these headlamps.

[cliftyhanger]

No2 daughter bought me a pair of Osram LED H4 lamps for christmas. I may have had themn on my list....

Not yet fitted. But as I believe Osram (along with Philips etc) to produce quality stuff, I hope they will work well in teh fitted Cibie lamps.

The slef levelling thing is a bit of a red hrring. On my dolomite, and indeed none cars have self levelling headlights, and only teh most modern have adjustable (without a screwdriver!)

And yet I can unquestionably fit a wide selection of extra bright halogen lamps. And if I fill the boot, teh lights can kick up and dazzle oncomers. The LEDs will be no different, as long as teh pattern is good.

I find the biggest issue is when driving a low car (my spitfire, or our MX5) and having oversized "SUV"s around with their super bright lights and dazzling me in.

[B8WLY]

What a brilliant thread.

Looks like I may of found my next little project.