Panhard Bar

[ian.stewart]

Has anybody got pics or drawings of a Panhard bar for a Sprint, Im guessing a Watts linkage is not an option looking at the space behind the back cover and the floor.

[SprintV8]

If you wait till next week I can take photos of my set up.
Just upgraded to a adjustable pan hard rod
So have a Fiesta XR2 rod available if you need one.
Cut the bracket off a XR2 and welded to the boot floor.

[ian.stewart]

If you wait till next week I can take photos of my set up.
Just upgraded to a adjustable pan hard rod
So have a Fiesta XR2 rod available if you need one.
Cut the bracket off a XR2 and welded to the boot floor.

Thank you, pics would be good, I have had many leaf spring car that I have fitted a Panhard bar to, does it make a big difference to the rear end? as its sort of a triangulated 4bar set up

[SprintV8]

If you wait till next week I can take photos of my set up.
Just upgraded to a adjustable pan hard rod
So have a Fiesta XR2 rod available if you need one.
Cut the bracket off a XR2 and welded to the boot floor.

Thank you, pics would be good, I have had many leaf spring car that I have fitted a Panhard bar to, does it make a big difference to the rear end? as its sort of a triangulated 4bar set up

Had it fitted when I did the AJPv8 swap never used it on the road.
Speaking to Steve (many years ago) that owned The Quick Sprint (Now in Aluns Collection) it does make a noticeable difference.

This is the adjustable bar I have now.

[ian.stewart]

If you wait till next week I can take photos of my set up.
Just upgraded to a adjustable pan hard rod
So have a Fiesta XR2 rod available if you need one.
Cut the bracket off a XR2 and welded to the boot floor.

Thank you, pics would be good, I have had many leaf spring car that I have fitted a Panhard bar to, does it make a big difference to the rear end? as its sort of a triangulated 4bar set up

Had it fitted when I did the AJPv8 swap never used it on the road.
Speaking to Steve (many years ago) that owned The Quick Sprint (Now in Aluns Collection) it does make a noticeable difference.


This is the adjustable bar I have now.

That looks the business, the turnbuckle should make adjustments dead easy,



I have used this method on several street cars mainly to save space, which simplified is a shock absorber set of top rubbers on a thread which allows you to push or pull the panhard bar thru the bracket, Thats on a A35 van,

[RichardHyde]

Is there any downside to a panhard rod ?

Do you need to reinforce the boot floor at all ?

As the rear suspension is compressed, is the axle forced sideways a little ? If the adjacent side of the triangle is related to the spring compression and the hypotenuse is the rod ?

[ian.stewart]

There are downsides to the panhard bar, one being the axle will be kept in place but arc around the opposing pivot point of the bar. so it needs to be as long as possible and equally mounted side to side. the shorter the bar the more likely of "Body Jack", Watts link will keep the axle parallel in its up and down movement, the best by far, from what I remember is called a Munn? link, which consists of a track mounted either vertically on the axle or body, in which a roller sits that is either mounted to the body or axle with a four bar mount or torque arm the axle the axle can only slide up or down the path of the track or rotate around the bearing axis, I have driven a track car (Mallock) with this link, its totally predictable and precise, Noisy and harsh as Hell and prone to wear but by far the best.

[Carledo]

I honestly can't see the point of adding a panhard rod to a Dolomite.

On a Fiesta, there are a pair of trailing arms and a pair of coilovers, like a Dolomite. But the Dolomite has it's angled upper trailing arms to keep the axle centred where the Fiesta has a Panhard rod instead. The Panhard rod is cheaper and lighter, but slightly less effective than the Dolomite's setup. But having BOTH is senseless.

If I was going to mod the rear end setup at all (i'm far too lazy) it would be to replace the axle end of the upper arms with a round bush like the front (body) end, like it is on a TR7, polybush the lot and make the arms adjustable for length so you can set the pinion nose angle more effectively.

But IMO, the lateral contol of the axle is perfectly fine as it is, certainly on a road car, if you're going to race it on a circuit then stiffening with polybushes is plenty.

As I've said before (notably in the Great Rear Disc Brake debate) just because you CAN do something, it doesn't mean you SHOULD!

Steve

[Carledo]

Is there any downside to a panhard rod ?

Do you need to reinforce the boot floor at all ?

As the rear suspension is compressed, is the axle forced sideways a little ? If the adjacent side of the triangle is related to the spring compression and the hypotenuse is the rod ?

Saw a Volvo 140 years ago, where the Panhard rod mount had ripped right out of the boot floor and that was only on a cooking, sub 100bhp saloon! So yes the boot floor would need reinforcing.

A Panhard rod only keeps the axle centered perfectly at nominal standard ride height. Otherwise the floating, or axle, end of the arm describes an arc centred on the fixed (body) end, so, if the suspension is compressed OR relaxed, the axle will move minutely towards the fixed end side either way. At full relax or full compression, the movement could be up to half an inch or so, enough to cause tyre/arch rub on a typical souped up Dolomite with 6" rims inside stock arches.

The stock Dolomite angled upper arms do the same job and keep the axle centred throughout the suspension travel.

Still want a Panhard rod?

Steve

[jackharper]

Saw a Volvo 140 years ago

Steve

Blimey! I didn't think they were in production then.... ha ha

[ian.stewart]

I honestly can't see the point of adding a panhard rod to a Dolomite.

On a Fiesta, there are a pair of trailing arms and a pair of coilovers, like a Dolomite. But the Dolomite has it's angled upper trailing arms to keep the axle centred where the Fiesta has a Panhard rod instead. The Panhard rod is cheaper and lighter, but slightly less effective than the Dolomite's setup. But having BOTH is senseless.

If I was going to mod the rear end setup at all (i'm far too lazy) it would be to replace the axle end of the upper arms with a round bush like the front (body) end, like it is on a TR7, polybush the lot and make the arms adjustable for length so you can set the pinion nose angle more effectively.

But IMO, the lateral contol of the axle is perfectly fine as it is, certainly on a road car, if you're going to race it on a circuit then stiffening with polybushes is plenty.

As I've said before (notably in the Great Rear Disc Brake debate) just because you CAN do something, it doesn't mean you SHOULD!

Steve

My main issue, is at this moment in time I want to change the wheels, its a personal thing, but I dislike sprint wheels, sorry,
I have recently asked about options on here but hand no replies, so Im going a different route, which leaves the tires close to the outer lip, what I dont want is the axle moving across allowing the tires to rub under lateral load. what I am assuming there must be, by their nature and design, deflection within the rubber to absorb twisting moments of the axle, even by fitting poly bushes, I know that will stiffen up the rear, but deflection will still be there.
Some of the wheel options I have wanted to try would involve staying with 13s which sort of limits my brake options, my 2 choices I had narrowed it down to was TR7 campagnola lookalikes, but I dont know if the offset was right, and my favourite was a Lotus Elan S2 bolt on steel, I know they were only 4-1/2 inches wide, but I know where to get new hoops up to 7" wide, so strip the lotus rim off the hub, and use the new hoops professionally welded on. downside being Lotus rims were known for cracking...... SO, I went another way, Gone to 15s, hopefully I can get the wheel/tyre/arch fitment to look correct, it can be done...... Anyway, I have these, in 6s and 7s, I have redrilled them to Triumph with oversized GrpA inserts in stainless, and they fit, but only Just,

[Carledo]

I use the 15"x6" MGF alloys with 195/50/15 Toyo Proxes installed on both my Dolomites and the Carledo. With the rear arches rolled a bit and partial polybushing (I don't go the whole hog for trailing arm longevity and noise suppression reasons) I'm not encountering any lateral movement or arch rubbing. Apart from a few polybushes a rear ARB and Gaz ASP shox the rear suspension is stock, even down to the original, stock length, 50 year old Toledo rear springs!

If the arches aren't rolled, they will rub when the car is stationary, just bouncing on the boot. But if you roll the arches and they clear stationary, they will still clear in service, even under extreme cornering loads on track. See below!




This is about flat out in 3rd exiting the Quarry hairpin at Castle Coombe IIRC!

I use the F wheels mainly because they are dirt cheap and easily obtained, I don't have a huge budget! Like you (and it's just a personal thing) I dislike the Sprint wheels and they really do restrict the brakes you use, so even my Sprint has MGF wheels over its 256mm Passat vented discs. The Carledo pictured above has the "standard" Trackerjack 239mm Golf discs and Sierra calipers. These DO fit (just) under a Sprint wheel, but it's a Toledo not a Sprint!

Steve

Edit, It seems to me that if you have a Panhard rod AND the stock upper arms, the 2 will actually be fighting each other over where they want the axle to be!

[shaunroche]

I use the 15"x6" MGF alloys with 195/50/15 Toyo Proxes installed on both my Dolomites and the Carledo. ......
Steve

Sorry to hijack the thread Steve, what offset have the MGF wheels got please?

[SprintV8]

Fiesta XR2 bracket welded to boot floor.
There is also reinforcement inside the boot as well.
Couldn’t get any photos inside boot today.
The panhard rod at normal ride height needs to be dead level to get the the full benefit.
Axle isn’t at or anywhere near ride height at the moment.


At the moment it bolts to the nearside trailing arm.
There will be multiple holes locations to get the Panhard at the correct level.
Hence why it will be fully adjustable.

[ian.stewart]

Fiesta XR2 bracket welded to boot floor.
There is also reinforcement inside the boot as well.
Couldn’t get any photos inside boot today.
The panhard rod at normal ride height needs to be dead level to get the the full benefit.
Axle isn’t at or anywhere near ride height at the moment.


At the moment it bolts to the nearside trailing arm.
There will be multiple holes locations to get the Panhard at the correct level.
Hence why it will be fully adjustable.

Thankyou, those help a lot in how to position the bar,