Engine swaps and the DVLA: Resolved

[Boost All The Dollys]

So, as I’m nearing completion on my project Dolomite, I need to inform the DVLA that I’ve changed the engine. I’ve already called them up so I know what forms I need to fill in (V5 and either V10 or V70) but for the DVLA to accept that the car has been engine swapped, I need to have a garage write a headed letter that confirms that the swap has taken place.

I’ve already discussed this with my local garage and they’re happy to do this but they would prefer if I handed them the correct wording that they will sign off on.

I’ve tried looking around online to find any examples but I can’t find anything so I’m hoping some of you who have done this sort of thing could help me out and show me some examples. If you’re worried about privacy, that’s fine, all I’m after is the main paragraph wording.

My assumption would be that it would be a very short letter with something to the effect of:

“I, (name of garage), can confirm that the vehicle (reg plate)(car make, model, and year) has had its original engine removed and replaced with (engine manufacturer, displacement, model, and year) with engine identification number (number stamped in block).”

I’m just unsure if there needs to be more than that as it seems too short.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Edit: just got off the phone with the DVLA, turns out that IS all that is needed, never mind

[wgcjim20]

I have no experience of doing this, but I guess it's worth also including the chassis no of your car (assuming it does already correspond with your existing V5).

[cliftyhanger]

All I did with my spitfire is send teh V5 off with change of enginenumber and cc.

I think that historic vehicles don't need the garage letter? But it certainly won't hurt.

[RichardHyde]

I changed the Class to Historic at the Post Office. When I received the new V5C stating Historic, I posted it to DVLA with the Nissan engine number. That’s all…no letter.

Talk to your local Post Office.

It appears much simpler once it’s classed at Historic..

[DoloWIGHTY]

Talk to your local Post Office.

Can I just add: Talk to someone at your Main Post Office, most sub post offices haven't a clue about anything like this, you may even find it a challenge to find anyone who can help at your Main Post Office, mostly (I have found) that unless they have some practical experience of doing this or something similar most counter staff have no idea about anything outside of routine stuff.

Good luck.

[Carledo]

I've been through his exact process back in 2014 when DVLA were actively enforcing this legislation (which was new at the time)

I had the car verified by the local Triumph Sport 6 Club area organiser and the resultant letter printed out on TSSC headed paper, which was accepted by DVLA without comment. I can, if you think it needful, copy this letter and PM it to you to get the form of words right.

But as others have said, although the legislation and requirements are still on the books, but are no longer enforced to any noticeable extent, if you contact DVLA, they will give you the "official" procedure. If, OTOH, you just send the V5 in with the change of engine number and capacity listed, as was always the way before this nonsense was introduced, chances are good that you will not have a problem and you will get the V5 back, altered to suit your needs.

One final word of advice. If the car is still registered as PLG, get it swapped to historic at your local PO FIRST, then send it to DVLA for the engine swap. It's my experience that giving DVLA more than a single task at once just confuses them and they are more than likely to "lose" your application or just refuse it because they CAN! So don't give them the chance!

Steve

[DoloWIGHTY]

then send it to DVLA for the engine swap. It's my experience that giving DVLA more than a single task at once just confuses them and they are more than likely to "lose" your application or just refuse it because they CAN! So don't give them the chance!

Again. . . . can I just add . . . this by the way is from my own experience with working in the motor trade for over 22 years . . . if sending anything to the DVLA then send it via some trackable/sign for/recorded delivery as this eliminates their excuse that nothing was received.

[Boost All The Dollys]

I've been through his exact process back in 2014 when DVLA were actively enforcing this legislation (which was new at the time)…

…One final word of advice. If the car is still registered as PLG, get it swapped to historic at your local PO FIRST, then send it to DVLA for the engine swap. It's my experience that giving DVLA more than a single task at once just confuses them and they are more than likely to "lose" your application or just refuse it because they CAN! So don't give them the chance!

Steve

To be honest Steve, you were the exact person I wanted to respond to this as I thought you’d know all about it.

After looking through all the DVLA stuff, I can’t get the vehicle changes to “historic” status for the tax exemption because of the engine swap so I don’t have to do that. What I do need to do is send off both the V5 and another form. As my new engine is twice the size, it changes the tax class it’s in so I need to send off either a V10 if I tax the car before MOT or a V70 if I do it after. Both the V10 and V70 are to change the tax class to the larger engine. The cut off is 1550cc so going from 1493cc to 2968cc definitely needs that.

As for evidence, I called the DVLA and they said that the wording I put on the original post was absolutely fine and didn’t need anything else. I know I could probably get away with going to “historic” and then the swap but I don’t want any issues with the law etc.

But thank you all for your help and experience. Hopefully this post will help other people out as well.

[cliftyhanger]

Changing an engine will not affect Historic tax status. However, itr means the car will need an annual MoT.

[Carledo]

I've been through his exact process back in 2014 when DVLA were actively enforcing this legislation (which was new at the time)…

…One final word of advice. If the car is still registered as PLG, get it swapped to historic at your local PO FIRST, then send it to DVLA for the engine swap. It's my experience that giving DVLA more than a single task at once just confuses them and they are more than likely to "lose" your application or just refuse it because they CAN! So don't give them the chance!

Steve

To be honest Steve, you were the exact person I wanted to respond to this as I thought you’d know all about it.

After looking through all the DVLA stuff, I can’t get the vehicle changes to “historic” status for the tax exemption because of the engine swap so I don’t have to do that. What I do need to do is send off both the V5 and another form. As my new engine is twice the size, it changes the tax class it’s in so I need to send off either a V10 if I tax the car before MOT or a V70 if I do it after. Both the V10 and V70 are to change the tax class to the larger engine. The cut off is 1550cc so going from 1493cc to 2968cc definitely needs that.

As for evidence, I called the DVLA and they said that the wording I put on the original post was absolutely fine and didn’t need anything else. I know I could probably get away with going to “historic” and then the swap but I don’t want any issues with the law etc.

But thank you all for your help and experience. Hopefully this post will help other people out as well.

As Clive says above, swapping out the motor, no matter how big the increase in capacity, does not affect the car's entitlement to Historic status, that is, unless the transplant and other mods have forced you down the BIVA and Q plate route. (ie it contravenes the 8 point rule) Which is another can of worms altogether.

I had exactly the same reasons for wanting to get it right for my car back in 2014, at that time it was still liable for VED, being registered in 74 which would have meant a change in tax group from under 1500cc to over 1500cc (in fact, 1300 to 2000cc)and a price differential to go with it. Which brought me (I suspected) into tax fraud territory that I didn't fancy at all! However the car is now historic and VED free and the difference is moot. Such is also the case with your car, it's historic so the Tax is free however big the engine is.

Since the last Dolomite was built circa Nov 1980, that last car and all preceding it became elegibile for historic status on or before April 1st 2021. So the car is, without shadow of doubt, elegible for historic status. As it stands at the moment, the car is still registered PLG and the VED rates still apply. But DVLA will NEVER tell you it's entitled to historic status (it's one of their funny little quirks) So it is entirely down to YOU to claim your exemption from VED and I repeat, DO THIS FIRST at the PO and worry about the legalities of the engine swap later.

Steve

[RichardHyde]

Think we all agree…go to a proper Post Office and change to Historic. When you get the V5 back, change the engine number.

You can send me your V5 and I’ll get it changed for you as I’ve got a Post Office mate.

I don’t think there’s a legal requirement to have a MOT for every engine change….

[ClassicFan]

DVLA won't inform you your car qualifies as 'Historic' and will happily continue to take VED from you at the appropriate rate as long as you're willing to pay it but:

Download the V112, https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... om-mot.pdf complete and take it to the Post Office as already confirmed by others.

You have to wait for the first day of April, and then as long as your car was registered 40 years before the first of January you can apply for road tax exemption from April.

This requires a change to the V5 registration document, so you will need to take the V5 and proof of MOT or exemption (the V112 form) along to a Post Office and request the vehicle class to be changed from PLG (Private Light Goods) to Historic. In Northern Ireland you will also need to present proof of insurance to make the change.

Once the DVLA has approved the change you can apply for a refund of any outstanding road tax and your future tax reminders will show the delightful rate of £0 however, you still need to 'tax it' annually, although there is no fee to pay.

[Carledo]

I don’t think there’s a legal requirement to have a MOT for every engine change….

This comes under MOT regs rather than DVLA's. If you swap out the engine for another of the same type as you pulled out, you don't need to MOT. If you swap out for one from the same RANGE of vehicles, ie you have a 1300 Dolomite and want to, say, Sprintify it, that would be fine too. It's within what was available in that body at the time of production. But doing what both I and the OP (and you too Richard, come to that) have done, subbing in a more powerful motor from a different manufacturer, is certainly grounds for MOT's to continue indefinitely.

The wording is, perhaps deliberately, vague, requiring MOT if the car has been "substantially altered" from it's original technical spec. further details specifically mention higher capacity or different make engines, but without any specific limits. So ultimately it's down to you to decide. But, whilst the DVLA have a fairly draconian set of potential penalties for infringing their rules, i'm not aware of ANY penalty for not getting a Historic car MOT'd, only a possibility of prosecution for "fraudulent declaration of exemption" and I can't even say THAT for sure as I don't know of anyone who has been prosecuted for such an issue.

BTW, the DVSA's "substantially altered" should not be confused with DVLA's "radically modified" which is a different set of parameters altogether.

Steve

[RichardHyde]

I’m not arguing here at all, enjoying a lively discussion….

As Steve says, it’s very vague !!

The guidance also states….
Acceptable changes
It does not count as a ‘substantial change’ if….axles and running gear have been changed to improve efficiency, safety or environmental performance

Does a more modern fuel injected engine give better environmental performance or is it more efficient than a Sprint engine ? I suspect yes, so the engine swap isn’t substantial.

The first thing I’m going to do when my car is ready is to get an MOT, even if I categorically don’t need one…

[cliftyhanger]

I’m not arguing here at all, enjoying a lively discussion….

As Steve says, it’s very vague !!

The guidance also states….
Acceptable changes
It does not count as a ‘substantial change’ if….axles and running gear have been changed to improve efficiency, safety or environmental performance

Does a more modern fuel injected engine give better environmental performance or is it more efficient than a Sprint engine ? I suspect yes, so the engine swap isn’t substantial.

The first thing I’m going to do when my car is ready is to get an MOT, even if I categorically don’t need one…

That would be a mighty difficult one to prove. And is so grey as to be worthless.
To cover ones posterior (very important) an MoT is essential.

I don't think there have been any recent prosecutions, but if the brown stuff ever hits the fan, I want to be able to produce a document to cover me.