Brake pipe fittings....

[shaunroche]

Hi venerable Sages of the TDC! – tried to search the forum but can’t find the exact answer so here goes….

I’ve created my own copper brake pipes that run from the front flexi affixed to the top ball joint that enters the back of the brake calliper. They are adequate and look OK but that is not good enough for VA138 I’m afraid.

I’d like to create new aeroquip style flexi’s that will run from the top copper pipe, where it fastens to the brkt on the body in the wheel arch and terminates in the back of the calliper.

I know the top fitting will be a male 3/8” UNF, but I can’t work out what it is in the back of the calliper…what’s this, 1/8” NPT? I think it’s too small for 3/8” UNF….

If anyone has done this previously, what is the length from the top brkt to the calliper please?

I plan to have a straight male connector at the top and a 90 degree elbow female fitting and straight adapter at the calliper end…

Additionally, using the brake flexi brake pipe set from Rimmers (Goodridge?) the one of the LSV looks a bit short when the axle is off the ground, hanging down….anyone else found this?

Thank you O’Wise ones!

[xvivalve]

Is it wise having flexible pipes 'flapping' around for that section given the movements created by steering and suspension?

[shaunroche]

Is it wise having flexible pipes 'flapping' around for that section given the movements created by steering and suspension?

In the Words of one of your Patron Saints, It's not unusual!

Thinking on, that's how the Trackerjack pipes are actually, so I'm not worried...pretty sure that's how the sprintspares hoses used to be all that time ago..

[Carledo]

There is absolutely NO need to make this short (741mm) metal pipe into a flexi if you are still running the standard caliper. The flexi mount is fixed in place to the upright as is the caliper, so there is no movement between the 2 ends to necessitate a flexi. This is called a "fixed" caliper.

The reason we use a flexi on the TJ conversion is twofold, firstly the TJ caliper is of the "floating" variety so the caliper moves (if only very slightly) in relation to the upright at every brake application and also incrementally as pads wear. Which could work harden the pipe over time and lead to a failure. Secondly, with the TJs, the piston assembly of the caliper needs to be removed to change the pads, with a hard pipe it would be needful to disconnect and block the pipe to remove the piston assembly or risk bending and more work hardening etc, as well as needing bleeding afterwards. So the flexi on the TJ is both safer and more futureproof.

The standard pipe has a 3/8" UNF male union at the caliper end and a 3/8" UNF female at the other. The length I quoted of 741mm is a "cutting length" so take into account the pipe itself will be circa 5mm shorter once the flares are on. I can make you a couple up if you want.

Steve

EDIT, The single flexi you propose would need to be supported about where the joint is normally, (by the upper balljoint) at the very least a bracket with a grommet to avoid chafing the flexi. I've looked at this from all sides and concluded, long since, that the job isn't worth the candle! With steering and suspension movements as large as they are on the Dolomite, it's next to impossible to work out a hose that would miss everything under ALL conditions of movement.

[shaunroche]

There is absolutely NO need to make this short (741mm) metal pipe into a flexi if you are still running the standard caliper.......
Steve

741mm? What is? I'm talking about the small pipe from the caliper to the ball joint, that can only be about 250mm long surely?

It's these pipes I mean...

[Mad Mart]

The length is approx. 350mm. Taken from Jon's original notes.

[shaunroche]

The length is approx. 350mm. Taken from Jon's original notes.

Cheers Mart!

[Carledo]

There is absolutely NO need to make this short (741mm) metal pipe into a flexi if you are still running the standard caliper.......
Steve

741mm? What is? I'm talking about the small pipe from the caliper to the ball joint, that can only be about 250mm long surely?

It's these pipes I mean...

Sorry about that, my mistake, I read my list of sizes wrong! It's actually 297mm (again a cutting length) 741 is the dual circuit O/S/F pipe!

All the measurements I have are taken from genuine steel originals meticulously straightened and measured to the nearest mm. I do it this way because I positively hate makers (no names. no pack drill) who generously give you a couple of inches extra on each pipe or, worse still, sell you a "one kit fits all" kit. Basically, it doesn't!

AFAIK the front flexi to caliper pipes are the only universal length Dolomite pipe, and even that's not correct if you include the drum braked Toledo!

Master cylinder to 4 way/PDWA varies from single to dual circuit in number, length and fittings.
Both pipes to front flexis vary single to dual circuit in both length and fittings.
Front half of front to back pipe varies between OHV and OHC and between single and dual circuit.
Rear half of front to back pipe varies between Sprint and all other models.
Pipes from rear flexi to O/S/R cylinder and across axle vary between FWD and RWD models.

You can call me anal retentive if you want, I just hate it when I spend hours carefully shaping a pipe in crisp bends to original spec and find I have a couple inches left over with nowhere to put it!

Steve

[Mad Mart]

I would go with Steve's dimensions. I have only done one Trackerjack setup, many, many years ago. Steve has obviously put a lot of effort into building these brake upgrades.

[shaunroche]

There is absolutely NO need to make this short (741mm) metal pipe into a flexi if you are still running the standard caliper.......
Steve

741mm? What is? I'm talking about the small pipe from the caliper to the ball joint, that can only be about 250mm long surely?

It's these pipes I mean...




Sorry about that, my mistake, I read my list of sizes wrong! It's actually 297mm (again a cutting length) 741 is the dual circuit O/S/F pipe!....

Steve

All that above was completely unnecessary Steve, the pipes I've been bending were the ones you supplied me with when you came to freeze to death in my workshop yonks ago!

I've bent all the other pipes to an acceptable standard, but couldn't get the small front ones quite right and ended up making some more...but I didn't like those either, hence me doing away with them completely!

In hindsight, they were probably ok, but too late now!

For reference, the cutting length for Flexi pipes on std calipers is at least 375mm as the std caliper ports are further away than the Ford ones!...

[Carledo]

297mm is the correct length for those flexi to caliper pipes, yes they are longer than those needed for TJs, my bespoke TJ flexis are only 200mm between the 90 degree bends and that's plenty! 375mm is way too much. Another 3"!

You have no idea how long it took me to FIND an original steel one to measure!

The short hard pipes are a bit difficult to shape, I start at the female (flexi) end and put a 90 degree angle in with a pipe bender near enough right out of the union, fit the union and tighten it and the rest can be shaped by hand. Like just about everything else in life, practice makes perfect!

If you'd like, I can knock you up a pair with the 90 degree bend pre-done. I'll do this gratis since you weren't happy with the first ones.

Steve

[shaunroche]

297mm is the correct length for those flexi to caliper pipes, yes they are longer than those needed for TJs, my bespoke TJ flexis are only 200mm between the 90 degree bends and that's plenty! 375mm is way too much. Another 3"!

Again, I think we're talking at cross purposes, the lengths I'm talking about is for the aeroquip flexi's....

If you'd like, I can knock you up a pair with the 90 degree bend pre-done. I'll do this gratis since you weren't happy with the first ones.
Steve

No, don't be daft! That's a very generous offer but it's my fault I didn't bend them well enough! It's not your fault I did them wrong!

Your pipes that you supplied were perfect as one would expect, no fault on your part!

I've been fitting the fuel pipes you did for me today....what a faff! Couldn't work out how they went together initially, but now I've done them, realise I wouldn't have got very far with Gordon Burns and his Krypton Factor unfortunately!