The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

I have recently bought a set of 5 Yoko's https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/yokoham ... re1299641/
Not done a lot of miles on them yet but at £75 each they do seem a superb tyre. Better than £160 each for a period look I don't really need.

veeeight wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2024 11:25 am I have recently bought a set of 5 Yoko's https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/yokoham ... re1299641/
Not done a lot of miles on them yet but at £75 each they do seem a superb tyre. Better than £160 each for a period look I don't really need.

Did you go for 185/60R13 size?

veeeight wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2024 11:25 am I have recently bought a set of 5 Yoko's https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/yokoham ... re1299641/
Not done a lot of miles on them yet but at £75 each they do seem a superb tyre. Better than £160 each for a period look I don't really need.

Wow, that's a good price!

I'm trying to decide what to put on my road going Sprint and I think that might just fit the bill!

Carledo wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 4:35 pm
Don't know how many horses your Sprint possesses Shaun, but I guess considerably more than the stock quoted 127! In my mind, a figure of 175-200 seems likely.

Yet all those extra horses have only resulted in a modest 2mph increase in available V-max. Still (just) within the limits of a T rated tyre. Which confirms a long held suspicion of mine that the limit of a Sprint's top speed is mostly governed, not by power, but by aerodynamic limitations. The thing has all the aerodynamic efficiency of a common house brick! (BTW, the Carledo, massively lightened and bearing around 145BHP also tops out at 115 on the satnav and that's with a couple of miles to build up the last 5mph!)

Yep about 175 bhp Steve - best I've had out of it is a 119mph on a private dual carriageway so not great, but it does get here quite quickly!
I'd say it is deffo the lack of aerodynamics that does it and the fact that Lavant straight isn't very long - if I had a different diff in it it my have a better top end, but I've never got 'round to changing it.

Love hearing about these earlier tyres that confirm my suspicion that they were all comparatively crap...I always remember the adverts on the TV for the Goodyear Grand Prix S....what were they like Steve, can you remember?

shaunroche wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:57 pm

Carledo wrote: ↑Fri Oct 25, 2024 4:35 pm
Don't know how many horses your Sprint possesses Shaun, but I guess considerably more than the stock quoted 127! In my mind, a figure of 175-200 seems likely.

Yet all those extra horses have only resulted in a modest 2mph increase in available V-max. Still (just) within the limits of a T rated tyre. Which confirms a long held suspicion of mine that the limit of a Sprint's top speed is mostly governed, not by power, but by aerodynamic limitations. The thing has all the aerodynamic efficiency of a common house brick! (BTW, the Carledo, massively lightened and bearing around 145BHP also tops out at 115 on the satnav and that's with a couple of miles to build up the last 5mph!)

Yep about 175 bhp Steve - best I've had out of it is a 119mph on a private dual carriageway so not great, but it does get here quite quickly!
I'd say it is deffo the lack of aerodynamics that does it and the fact that Lavant straight isn't very long - if I had a different diff in it it my have a better top end, but I've never got 'round to changing it.

Love hearing about these earlier tyres that confirm my suspicion that they were all comparatively crap...I always remember the adverts on the TV for the Goodyear Grand Prix S....what were they like Steve, can you remember?

I certainly used enough Grand Prix S tyres in my time, though mainly only for "ordinary" cars and likely because that was what they wore when I bought them! By 85 my hi-po cars were firmly on Yokos! And then later, when the A008s went out of stock I switched to Toyo Proxes. But I can't remember the GPS having any particular vices, unlike the Dunlops, (SP Sport) which used to grow pidgeon eggs in the sidewalls for a hobby, I can't ever remember wearing one out, the carcass always failed first!

On getting there quick, the Carledo has done the standing 1/4 (on street tyres and without an LSD) in a respectable 16.014secs with a terminal speed of 91.03mph, so yeah, quick enough I guess! An LSD would be good for about 1.5 secs off that time, though it wouldn't affect the TS much.

Steve

PS, if the current Yoko A008s are like the old ones, it's likely you wont get a 70 profile, I ran the GT6 on 185/60/13s which were the highest profile available at the time.

Hi

I must say i am suprised you find these tyres expensive. I dont think they really need the V speed rating, but it does just show the quality.

60 profile tyres will not react well with your chassis, it has a completely inappropriate carcass structure which will finish the progressive handling of a Dollomite.

it does suprise me how much people are prepared to compromise their car to save a few quid.

A modern carcass 185/60R13 will not handle anywhere nearly as well on a road car Dolomite as those Pirelli Cintuirato CN36.The CN36 are better tyres with top notch Pirelli compounds, but most importantly they have a carcass that suits your chassis, and will handle dramatically more progressively.

Dougal Cawley wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 12:18 pm Hi

I must say i am suprised you find these tyres expensive. I dont think they really need the V speed rating, but it does just show the quality.

60 profile tyres will not react well with your chassis, it has a completely inappropriate carcass structure which will finish the progressive handling of a Dollomite.

it does suprise me how much people are prepared to compromise their car to save a few quid.

A modern carcass 185/60R13 will not handle anywhere nearly as well on a road car Dolomite as those Pirelli Cintuirato CN36.The CN36 are better tyres with top notch Pirelli compounds, but most importantly they have a carcass that suits your chassis, and will handle dramatically more progressively.

The thing is, we who actually drive these cars regularly, sometimes on track even, will tell you there's no compromise to handling involved in using a 60 profile tyre on a Dolomite. It may even, (subjective opinion) work a tad better. My objection (slight as it is) is purely aesthetic, the 60s don't fill the arches well enough for my taste. I've been driving Triumphs (and anything else I come i contact with) on or close to the limits for more than 50 years. If the effects were as dramatic as you suggest, i'd be dead by now!

If you think a 60 profile will ruin the handling, explain how my car corners comfortably and predictably in track or street conditions on it's 195/50/VR15 Toyo Proxes which are about 40% of the price of the Pirellis and are widely available!



Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your service to classic car owners and that of the 1 or 2 manufacturers who are remanufacturing classic styles and sizes of tyre. I also appreciate that limited production runs result in higher prices. We are all victims of a free market and companies that have too small a margin don't stay in business long. So I understand WHY these tyres are so pricey. I just don't personally feel compelled to pay those prices myself.

Steve

Dougal Cawley wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 12:18 pm Hi

I must say i am suprised you find these tyres expensive. I dont think they really need the V speed rating, but it does just show the quality.

60 profile tyres will not react well with your chassis, it has a completely inappropriate carcass structure which will finish the progressive handling of a Dollomite.

it does suprise me how much people are prepared to compromise their car to save a few quid.

A modern carcass 185/60R13 will not handle anywhere nearly as well on a road car Dolomite as those Pirelli Cintuirato CN36.The CN36 are better tyres with top notch Pirelli compounds, but most importantly they have a carcass that suits your chassis, and will handle dramatically more progressively.

I'm about to buy a set of new 13" tyres, and probably going for the Uniroyal Rainexpert3 (175/70R13) at £48/each Vs the Pirelli at £166/each is not saving just a few quid, that's over 3-times the cost (not including fitting) and I guess for most people they are likely to get to an age limit on the tyres quicker than wear limit, unless doing track days etc.

Carledo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 3:06 pm

Dougal Cawley wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 12:18 pm Hi

I must say i am suprised you find these tyres expensive. I dont think they really need the V speed rating, but it does just show the quality.

60 profile tyres will not react well with your chassis, it has a completely inappropriate carcass structure which will finish the progressive handling of a Dollomite.

it does suprise me how much people are prepared to compromise their car to save a few quid.

A modern carcass 185/60R13 will not handle anywhere nearly as well on a road car Dolomite as those Pirelli Cintuirato CN36.The CN36 are better tyres with top notch Pirelli compounds, but most importantly they have a carcass that suits your chassis, and will handle dramatically more progressively.

The thing is, we who actually drive these cars regularly, sometimes on track even, will tell you there's no compromise to handling involved in using a 60 profile tyre on a Dolomite. It may even, (subjective opinion) work a tad better. My objection (slight as it is) is purely aesthetic, the 60s don't fill the arches well enough for my taste. I've been driving Triumphs (and anything else I come i contact with) on or close to the limits for more than 50 years. If the effects were as dramatic as you suggest, i'd be dead by now!

If you think a 60 profile will ruin the handling, explain how my car corners comfortably and predictably in track or street conditions on it's 195/50/VR15 Toyo Proxes which are about 40% of the price of the Pirellis and are widely available!



Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your service to classic car owners and that of the 1 or 2 manufacturers who are remanufacturing classic styles and sizes of tyre. I also appreciate that limited production runs result in higher prices. We are all victims of a free market and companies that have too small a margin don't stay in business long. So I understand WHY these tyres are so pricey. I just don't personally feel compelled to pay those prices myself.

Steve

Hi Steve,

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but i have done some driving of Dolomite Sprints, and lots of other classic cars including TRs.

before we go any further, what other modifications have you done to your car?

so what i am talking about here is as a road car, so before i define any other features what about ride of your car? the ride of your tyres is pretty bad compared to a 175/70R13, specially a proper period one like the CN36. And quite considerably worse so on a 195/50R15?

The other most noticable unpleasant feature, which again will be emphesised by your 15" option is when you drive on our rutted dual carriage ways and motorways, your wider tyres will pichk up the unevenness of the roads causiong tramlining. this again will be improved by a correct size tyre and improve it more with a period tyre suited to your chassis as a road tyre.

hoops wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 10:31 am

Dougal Cawley wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 12:18 pm Hi

I must say i am suprised you find these tyres expensive. I dont think they really need the V speed rating, but it does just show the quality.

60 profile tyres will not react well with your chassis, it has a completely inappropriate carcass structure which will finish the progressive handling of a Dollomite.

it does suprise me how much people are prepared to compromise their car to save a few quid.

A modern carcass 185/60R13 will not handle anywhere nearly as well on a road car Dolomite as those Pirelli Cintuirato CN36.The CN36 are better tyres with top notch Pirelli compounds, but most importantly they have a carcass that suits your chassis, and will handle dramatically more progressively.

I'm about to buy a set of new 13" tyres, and probably going for the Uniroyal Rainexpert3 (175/70R13) at £48/each Vs the Pirelli at £166/each is not saving just a few quid, that's over 3-times the cost (not including fitting) and I guess for most people they are likely to get to an age limit on the tyres quicker than wear limit, unless doing track days etc.

They are very different things, in the same way a Dolomite Sprint is very different to a Triumph 1300, but they can still fit a 175/70R13

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... -cn36.html

What i find when i get involved in discussions on forums such as this is that cars like the BMW 2002 lot are all over these CN36, they all want them, of course this is emphesised by the fact that all the people who fit them come back on the forum and say 'Wow! these are epic, i thought that Dougal was just talking out of his A**e just to get my money.' The BMW 2002 Alpina actually fitted the CN36 as OE. The Porsche lot just buy them. They know they are best, Porsche themselves tested them and gave them the N homologation. The Escort lot are a bit more reserved, It was OE on the RS and Mexico, all the top sporting models, and Capri for that matter. However with Ford, the top end boys with the proper RS cars on the road buy them and know they are great, the Rally and Race cars have toatally different geometry to the cars of the day, which is set up to drive on different lower wider tyres, stiffer springs, adverse camber, etc. they dont care about road manners. The replica and cheaper models stick to the budget tyres. The value of the car, wrongly, often determins what tyres people choose, it shouldn't be the price it should be down to what the car is.

As a road car it will be much more of a pleasure to drive, it will be more progressive and handle the way it should, your gearing and speedo will be right, the tramlining will be at a minimum, the steering will be more precise and direct. they are just better for your car as a road tyre, but they cost a bit more, (o! and they look good). they aren't expensive, i had to pay over two hundred smackers for tyres for my modern Bimmer the other day. just be glad you haven't got a Lamborghinin LM002

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... lm002.html

Dougal Cawley wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 5:29 pm

hoops wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 10:31 am

Dougal Cawley wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 12:18 pm Hi

I must say i am suprised you find these tyres expensive. I dont think they really need the V speed rating, but it does just show the quality.

60 profile tyres will not react well with your chassis, it has a completely inappropriate carcass structure which will finish the progressive handling of a Dollomite.

it does suprise me how much people are prepared to compromise their car to save a few quid.

A modern carcass 185/60R13 will not handle anywhere nearly as well on a road car Dolomite as those Pirelli Cintuirato CN36.The CN36 are better tyres with top notch Pirelli compounds, but most importantly they have a carcass that suits your chassis, and will handle dramatically more progressively.

I'm about to buy a set of new 13" tyres, and probably going for the Uniroyal Rainexpert3 (175/70R13) at £48/each Vs the Pirelli at £166/each is not saving just a few quid, that's over 3-times the cost (not including fitting) and I guess for most people they are likely to get to an age limit on the tyres quicker than wear limit, unless doing track days etc.

They are very different things, in the same way a Dolomite Sprint is very different to a Triumph 1300, but they can still fit a 175/70R13

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... -cn36.html

What i find when i get involved in discussions on forums such as this is that cars like the BMW 2002 lot are all over these CN36, they all want them, of course this is emphesised by the fact that all the people who fit them come back on the forum and say 'Wow! these are epic, i thought that Dougal was just talking out of his A**e just to get my money.' The BMW 2002 Alpina actually fitted the CN36 as OE. The Porsche lot just buy them. They know they are best, Porsche themselves tested them and gave them the N homologation. The Escort lot are a bit more reserved, It was OE on the RS and Mexico, all the top sporting models, and Capri for that matter. However with Ford, the top end boys with the proper RS cars on the road buy them and know they are great, the Rally and Race cars have toatally different geometry to the cars of the day, which is set up to drive on different lower wider tyres, stiffer springs, adverse camber, etc. they dont care about road manners. The replica and cheaper models stick to the budget tyres. The value of the car, wrongly, often determins what tyres people choose, it shouldn't be the price it should be down to what the car is.

As a road car it will be much more of a pleasure to drive, it will be more progressive and handle the way it should, your gearing and speedo will be right, the tramlining will be at a minimum, the steering will be more precise and direct. they are just better for your car as a road tyre, but they cost a bit more, (o! and they look good). they aren't expensive, i had to pay over two hundred smackers for tyres for my modern Bimmer the other day. just be glad you haven't got a Lamborghinin LM002

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... lm002.html

Not sure I understand the relevance of most of that reply.

The standard for the Dolomite is 155/80R13 and Sprint is 175/70R13 which both have essentially the same overall diameter.

I don't doubt that the CN36 is a good period correct tyre but its the cost at £160+ each that is the kicker for something that is only doing a few thousand miles a year, in generally good weather (not in snow etc).

Not sure 'be glad you don't have a Lamborghini' is a good strapline for trying to sell tyres in a classic car club forum...

hoops wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 7:51 pm I don't doubt that the CN36 is a good period correct tyre but its the cost at £160+ each that is the kicker for something that is only doing a few thousand miles a year, in generally good weather (not in snow etc).

I do understand that people buy tyres on price.

Pirelli now make 155R13 Cinturato CA67 for a standard Dolomite.

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... -ca67.html

Again that is a great price for what it actually is, however yes there are cheaper options out there.

Lamborghini LM002 tyres cost 30 bags of sand for a set. When i can get them. Which makes a set of 4 off 155R13 Cinturato CA67 for less than a monkey an absolute steel, for such high quality performance tyres made by one of the worlds best tyre manufacturers an an obsolete size and carcass structure. The only comparative tyres to the 155R13 Cinturato are the Dunlop SP Sport which costs £70 more and the Michelin XAS which costs twive as much. In the size 175/70VR13 the only comparable tyres are again the Dunlop SP Sport for £30+ more and the Avon CR6ZZ whihc is well over £ 100 more.

However, i don't dispute that however i justify the cost of these tyres, it doesn't get away from the fact they do add up to a large dent in the credit card bill. But i fitted a set on my Dads Dolomite Sprint, and they were fantastic, they werent as much fun as the crossply Dunlop racing tyres which i raced it on, but the cvharacteristics were similarly progressive and predictable, but they hung on longer than the crossply.

So educate me Dougal please, the modern remake of the period tyre tread you're talking about, does it perform as well as a modern tyre or is it at least as good as it was in period?

All the praise for this tyre by the Old Boys, are they saying they are a great tyre in comparison to modern tyres or are they saying they are a great recreation of how the tyres were back in period?

If the latter, then that's not really the same thing is it?

Don't get me wrong, absolutely delighted you offer the service you do, but just curious to learn!

Hi

yes they are better than a modern tyre on your car. Modern tyres have the wrong carcass. the tread pattern is less important.

The difference between a modern tyre and the Old CN36 are:

a modern tyre is designed to work in conjunction with massively different suspension to your car.
a modern tyre is not designed to be presented to the road at the different varing angle which youu car will present the tyre.
modern tyres compared to the old CN36 will have better build quality now. However the current productions of Pirelli Collezione tyres are built in modern factories, which is the why the quality is so high.
Modern tyres have greener more freindly compounds which move water better than old compounds. However the current productions of Pirelli Collezione tyres also use top notch modern Pirelli compounds.

The only relavent advantages of a modern tyre that theoretically could be a benefit is computer modeling in design, should improve the rolling resistence, noise and wet perormance. however if you look at the 2 back to back tyre tests listed on the link below, you will see that, yes the modern tyres in the test, do have better rolling resistence and noise levels, but they don't perform better in the wet. In fact the Pirelli knocks all the other tyres into the weeds (including the modern tyres Vredestein, Blockley, Dunlop Sport Classic and Radar, all made up new modern tyres.)

https://www.longstone.com/classic-tire-test

The Pirelli Collezione have all (except noise and rolling resistence) the advantages of modern tyre manufacturing, but are better for your car because they actually have a carcass designed to compliment your chassis. the fact they look great is a bonus.