Overheating/coolant leak

[HQentity]

Thank you. The parts are in fact in the post or here, yes. My plan is to only have the studs extracted and continue to do the rest of the work

[MIG Wielder]

Yes, this is a good idea since it is your daily driver.
I was passing my local Classic friendly garage this morning so I dropped in and asked them what they could do for 1850 / TR7 / Stag cylinder head studs for future reference. I even had an old 1850 stud with me to show them.
They reckoned that they could extract most studs O.K. though they haven't done an 1850 for some time. He did say that the worst ones to do were fuel injectors in a modern. They have a mobile specialist they can call on for these. He did say that this sort of work isn't cheap and they will only quote on the basis of an hourly rate of £65/ hour.
So it looks like the technology has evolved to cope with the needs of modern engines.
He wasn't around so I couldn't get details but I'll pop in next week and have a word.
Tony.

[Jon Tilson]

I don't think an 1850 or TR7 engine has valve stem oil seals. I tend to use them on Sprints though as the top of the exhaust valve stem is a bit more exposed to oil. On an 8V head the exhaust valve stem sits under a bucket.

Jonners

[HQentity]

So today marks 2 weeks that the garage have had my car, and they have decided the studs are not able to be removed without destroying the head, so they are me getting me a quote to remove the head from the block. I am looking into getting a new head and having it fitted by them, however I was just wondering (to keep cost down) how much of the work I can do myself? Everything so far I have done myself with this job, so if I can put together the new head too I will. I only have basic tools though!

Furthermore does anyone have any rough estimates for removing the head and destroying it?! If they quote me £600 for instance, are they having me on?!

Lastly I am obviously now looking for a new head, are there any recommendations? Rimmers do one labelled 'scrap' for £77, that I was pretty impressed with.

I do hope I will one day drive my lovely car again

[sprint95m]

My first reaction to your bad news Kyle,
is that they don't know what they are doing .
It does rather sound that they have actually done nothing and are now trying to fob you off.

It will be easier to cut the cylinder head off (with a large angle grinder)., for sure,
but this is extremely wasteful, given that 1850 cylinder heads are only a finite resource.
With patience it will be possible to remove the cylinder head.

Is there a (former) Saab dealer near you?
They should have the special Saab 99 tool for this very job (but the engine will need removing first),
which will work.

Sorry, I don't have any advice to offer you for your current predicament, other than to say
I have an 1850HL head which I bought last year for £100 (Auction of Ted's Stuff),
which I am prepared to sell but not give away. If the worst does happen,
of course you can PM me….



Ian.

[MIG Wielder]

Hi Kyle, Oh dear , not good news then.
TBH £600 sounds like 10 hours labour depending where you are in the country. My local place is on £65 / hour for their work on Classics. That sounds like an awful lot for cutting a head off with an electric saw.
How many studs have they managed to get out and have they broken any ?
Is there a TSOC member on here that could help I wonder ?
P.M. to follow.

Tony.

[tony g]

Engine swap might be cheaper. I'd get the car back from them

Tony

[SprintMWU773V]

It's easy to break something and frankly few people have the skill/patience/time to do the job properly. I strongly suggest you take your car somewhere else.

[HQentity]

So just to clarify, it was a guess for the £600 quote. They haven't got back to me about how much they would like to saw the head off, and I've decided not to saw it off anyway. I have since found a specialist who understands the situation (Abinger Hammer Motors), and are still confident they can remove the head without damaging it, but want the engine delivered out of the car. They charge £75 an hour plus VAT, and estimate 5 hours.

Is there a (former) Saab dealer near you?
They should have the special Saab 99 tool for this very job (but the engine will need removing first),
which will work.

I spoke to several saab dealers today and tracked down a Saab 99 specialist, however he didn't answer his phone, so will email him and see where that takes me over the weekend.

Regarding the SOC, they have caused me nothing but grief! Every time I get in contact with one of them, they know nothing about Dolomites or 1850's, and just send me on my way!

I'll be honest, its sadly looking grim at the moment. But I will keep trying. As long as the current garage the car is at doesn't charge too much, I might be able to pull this back I guess!

[Galileo]

Feel really bad about the grief your car is giving you, makes me want to drive down with a car full of tools, roll up my sleeves and do a 'right, let's sort this bad boy out'! The reality of which sadly would be even more of a mess but hey, the thought was there...

Googled Abinger Hammer Motors, and they will no doubt know exactly what they are doing as Stag specialists. In fact specialists to the point that they worked on the reverse engineering and subsequent recasting of brand new Stag cylinder heads. I thought was quite an effort for the Stag Owners Club, reckon all those posh Stag owners have a bit more money then the TDC have, certainly at £2,500 for a pair of new heads they must!

PS. Don't know what the SOC is so precious about, tell them a Stag engine is just two 1850's welded together, badly.

[GTS290N]

So just to clarify, it was a guess for the £600 quote. They haven't got back to me about how much they would like to saw the head off, and I've decided not to saw it off anyway. I have since found a specialist who understands the situation (Abinger Hammer Motors), and are still confident they can remove the head without damaging it, but want the engine delivered out of the car. They charge £75 an hour plus VAT, and estimate 5 hours.

Is there a (former) Saab dealer near you?
They should have the special Saab 99 tool for this very job (but the engine will need removing first),
which will work.

I spoke to several saab dealers today and tracked down a Saab 99 specialist, however he didn't answer his phone, so will email him and see where that takes me over the weekend.

Regarding the SOC, they have caused me nothing but grief! Every time I get in contact with one of them, they know nothing about Dolomites or 1850's, and just send me on my way!

I'll be honest, its sadly looking grim at the moment. But I will keep trying. As long as the current garage the car is at doesn't charge too much, I might be able to pull this back I guess!

Take a deep breath.
Speak to the Stag specialist and see if they will consider taking the engine out themselves if the car can be delivered, and if they will, how much for the extra work.
Speak to the garage where the car is, be calm, have your thoughts written down and go through them. Try to ascertain exactly how much work they have done, how much progress they have made, if they have already damaged anything, of so what and to what extent, see what state the car is in at the moment (is everything attached, is the bonnet off, etc), is it safe and inside the workshop, try to work the conversation to a point where they feel they have done a bad job, but get them to realise that rather than accuse them. Did they promise they could do this? Within what timeframe? etc. Try to negotiate a very cheap bill, remember this is your engine they have destroyed (bit harsh, don't necessarily say that, not necessarily the case, but you're looking for an exit).

Before you do all this consider all the possible outcomes and try to plan for each eventuality. Ask people on here (or other friends/colleagues) if they can transport the car from one garage to another, if so when? Ask 'car transport' companies if they can do this, if so when and how much? Ask people on here or other friends colleagues if they have an engine hoist, can you borrow it, will they help, can someone move a removed engine from wherever your car ends up to the Stag garage and back, if so when, When can the Stag garage do the work? Can you hire an engine crane, get people to help? State your location on each thread.

Sorry this is not much practical help, but I hope it gives you constructive food for thought. I would have been in the same situation, luckily my brother was a car mechanic. And he struggled!

And don't be afraid to ask for help on here, sometimes best to start a new thread titled specifically what you need in case people aren't reading all of this.

[markas]

Kyle,
Sorry to hear of your engine grief. A great shame you're not further this way as a good friend of mine is an ex-Triumph apprenticed mechanic and worked regularly on these cars - and still does when he gets the chance to!
Just doing a spot of Googling and I discovered that Robsport have their own head removal tool for use on recalcitrant heads. As TR7 specialists they certainly know what they're doing with Triumph slant 4's. They are in Royston, Herts, but if you're considering hiring a beavertail truck to move the car to a specialist they are well worth considering. I've dealt with them in the past when I had a TR7 so can thoroughly recommend them.
It might also be worth making contact with the TR Driver's Club as apparently they have access to a similar tool and may be less aloof than the SOC - and I have belonged to both clubs in the past!
Also have a look at this solution:
http://www.triumphwedgeowners.org/twoa- ... ntals.html

[Jon Tilson]

It is possible to drill out the head studs with a specialist engineering companies milling tool. However the cost of this is not cheap.
I do suggest that you consider an alternative in fitting another engine.

If you have the space at home I would consider getting the car back and hiring a hoist yourself or try the "robert352" method of removing the entire front sub frame with engine and gearbox attached. You can do this with just axle stands and trolley jacks. We will guide you.

Once the engine is out of the car it can be positioned with the studs vertical and penetrating fluid used. You can also get better access to remove the timing cover and apply force to the underside of the head. It only needs to come up a few mm for a hacksaw to get at the studs. Once the head is off you can drive the remainder of the studs down through the head and out the bottom.

Jonners

[HQentity]

Thank you very much for all the help.

I will get in contact with the Stag specialists and see what they say regarding removing the engine, although I expect at £75/hour them to charge more than the current garage to remove the engine. Having said that, I'm also going to try to look into taking the engine out myself, as it seems like it isn't that bad of a job, from what people are saying. How much access is needed from under the car? Can it be done with axle stands?

In terms of the current garage, they have got one stud out, and have broken 2 studs, with about 1/4" left protruding. Otherwise no harm done.

In terms of other engines, all I've really seen is engines to this standard, which could well be perfect, but could also be shot? I would far rather keep the originality of having all the same car, know the engine runs - and has done a good milage the last few years on top of that. I feel like if I can just fix this one problem that I will be back where I started with a mechanically very strong car.

I've tried contacting Robsport however unfortunately their head puller is broken; they redirected me to Carlow Engineering in Essex, who currently aren't answering, but will try Monday with them. I have just emailed the TR Owners club asking for a head puller.

I think my biggest concern really is spending all my pennies on this only to find I still have no working car? I guess this is the risk you run, having a 42 year old daily driver - I guess I've been pretty lucky up until now. Thanks again for all the help from you guys.

[markas]

With regard to your ebay find, who owns GGN****? 'Your' engine is shown in front of that car in one photo!
It appears to have changed hand between club members so might be a good find to get you up and running again. You could than sort out your original engine to maintain matching numbers as time and budget allow.
Good that Robsport pointed you towards another garage, they seem to specialise in classic cars so might be useful contacts.