1850 gremlins
Re: 1850 gremlins
If you mean the slot has rags in there its not the gasket leaking its the o rings on the brass cage for the pump. Lower o ring stops oil from coming up into pump
Tony
Tony
Membership 2014047
- Toledo Man
- Guest contributor
- Posts: 7542
- Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:52 pm
- Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire
- Contact:
Re: 1850 gremlins
You need to investiage the source of the oil leak before charging in and removing the head. It would be worth rebuilding the water pump first. The water pump guide in the Dolly Wiki was written by Jonners himself and contains some valuable advice which will be of help.
Toledo Man
West Yorkshire Area Organiser
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Railway, 1 Birstall Lane, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1JJ
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - a project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint), NYE 751L (1972 Dolomite 1850 auto) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!
Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.
"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle
West Yorkshire Area Organiser
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Railway, 1 Birstall Lane, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1JJ
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - a project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint), NYE 751L (1972 Dolomite 1850 auto) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!
Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.
"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle
- Triumph1300
- TDC Member
- Posts: 1500
- Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:59 am
- Location: Coventry
Re: 1850 gremlins
The oil leak is from the head/block joint, the water pump slot is dry
BWJ
1966 Triumph 1300 Royal Blue
1966 Triumph 2000 Blue
1965 Triumph 2000 black and rust
1967 BSA B40wd green
2018 Jaguar E pace 2018
NOBODY expects the Canley Inquisition!
1966 Triumph 1300 Royal Blue
1966 Triumph 2000 Blue
1965 Triumph 2000 black and rust
1967 BSA B40wd green
2018 Jaguar E pace 2018
NOBODY expects the Canley Inquisition!
Re: 1850 gremlins
As Bruce said the leak is from the head, the rags were packed in under the inlet manifold to absorb as much of the leak as possible. No leakage from water pump.
Rich
Rich
1981 Dolomite 1500 Auto
Re: 1850 gremlins
Yeah the head was torqued down ok Tony, Lots of sealant around so has been a problem for a while by the look of things.
Rich
Rich
1981 Dolomite 1500 Auto
- Toledo Man
- Guest contributor
- Posts: 7542
- Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:52 pm
- Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire
- Contact:
Re: 1850 gremlins
It is looking like the head has to come off. Something's definitely not right if there's that much sealant...
Toledo Man
West Yorkshire Area Organiser
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Railway, 1 Birstall Lane, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1JJ
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - a project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint), NYE 751L (1972 Dolomite 1850 auto) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!
Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.
"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle
West Yorkshire Area Organiser
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Railway, 1 Birstall Lane, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1JJ
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - a project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint), NYE 751L (1972 Dolomite 1850 auto) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!
Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.
"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle
Re: 1850 gremlins
I seem to remeber when I talked to the guy that the head had recently been off.
-
- Guest contributor
- Posts: 11179
- Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:45 pm
- Location: Middlesex
Re: 1850 gremlins
Re the pump....when its in place it will rotate by hand a little because of the skew gear backlash and a little
give in the timing gear but it shouldn't be more than 1 cm at the outer edge of the impellor....or about 5 mins on
a clock face.
There should be no funny wear pattern on the teeth. It sounds to me as if you have a worn jackshaft sadly.
It could all be down to too high a pressure in the oil pump. Is there any sign the oil pump has been changed? A few
recent ones have had too high a pressure on the relief valve spring. This could account for your excess oil oil under the head as the oil way there goes though the jackshaft up into the head.
You need to pull off the timing cover and look for play in the jackshaft. If the jackshaft gear is damaged it will need replacing - sadly not cheap.
As this is an 8V engine and there are still relatively plentiful 8V TR7 engines around I would seriously think about
looking for one and swapping...
If your jackshaft bearing is shot the block is sadly beyond economic repair on an 8V
Jonners
give in the timing gear but it shouldn't be more than 1 cm at the outer edge of the impellor....or about 5 mins on
a clock face.
There should be no funny wear pattern on the teeth. It sounds to me as if you have a worn jackshaft sadly.
It could all be down to too high a pressure in the oil pump. Is there any sign the oil pump has been changed? A few
recent ones have had too high a pressure on the relief valve spring. This could account for your excess oil oil under the head as the oil way there goes though the jackshaft up into the head.
You need to pull off the timing cover and look for play in the jackshaft. If the jackshaft gear is damaged it will need replacing - sadly not cheap.
As this is an 8V engine and there are still relatively plentiful 8V TR7 engines around I would seriously think about
looking for one and swapping...
If your jackshaft bearing is shot the block is sadly beyond economic repair on an 8V
Jonners
Note from Admin: sadly Jon passed away in February 2018 but his humour and wealth of knowledge will be fondly remembered by all. RIP Jonners.
Re: 1850 gremlins
OK, so head is off and revealed some things to be concerned about. Firstly the corner of the timing chest had been broken off most probably when head was done before (first pic) cause of oil leak maybe as heavily siliconed around timing chest. Picture 1

Also the pistons have had a touch on all four, must be the reason why head was done before then not as previous owner had said about the valve seats, what would cause this damage to all four pistons?
Pic 2

Third pic is just an overall picture, apart from the timing chest, bores look good, valves look good but will leak test them with petrol to confirm.

Any input greatly appreciated. And also need a timing chest cover
Cheers Rich

Also the pistons have had a touch on all four, must be the reason why head was done before then not as previous owner had said about the valve seats, what would cause this damage to all four pistons?
Pic 2

Third pic is just an overall picture, apart from the timing chest, bores look good, valves look good but will leak test them with petrol to confirm.

Any input greatly appreciated. And also need a timing chest cover

Cheers Rich
1981 Dolomite 1500 Auto
- Triumph1300
- TDC Member
- Posts: 1500
- Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:59 am
- Location: Coventry
Re: 1850 gremlins
Right, update, and photos to follow
The head is off, and there is evidence of poor standard work in the past
All 4 pistons have 2 witness marks on them, as if the valves have touched
The head gasket had been coated in silicon
The top corner of the timing chest has been broken off, and glued back in place with silicon, advice may be required on changing one of these.
The studs had been replaced, but not greased, a degree of applied swearing was required to remove them.
I don't know if the valves are sealing, but will check with meths.
Another quiet Monday night in Coventry.
Edit beaten to it!
The head is off, and there is evidence of poor standard work in the past
All 4 pistons have 2 witness marks on them, as if the valves have touched
The head gasket had been coated in silicon
The top corner of the timing chest has been broken off, and glued back in place with silicon, advice may be required on changing one of these.
The studs had been replaced, but not greased, a degree of applied swearing was required to remove them.
I don't know if the valves are sealing, but will check with meths.
Another quiet Monday night in Coventry.

Edit beaten to it!
BWJ
1966 Triumph 1300 Royal Blue
1966 Triumph 2000 Blue
1965 Triumph 2000 black and rust
1967 BSA B40wd green
2018 Jaguar E pace 2018
NOBODY expects the Canley Inquisition!
1966 Triumph 1300 Royal Blue
1966 Triumph 2000 Blue
1965 Triumph 2000 black and rust
1967 BSA B40wd green
2018 Jaguar E pace 2018
NOBODY expects the Canley Inquisition!
- Toledo Man
- Guest contributor
- Posts: 7542
- Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:52 pm
- Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire
- Contact:
Re: 1850 gremlins
The head certainly needed to come off. I hope the valves aren't leaking. Worst case scenario is new valve guides so it could be worse. It would be worth having the valves ground in which should help seal them better. I'd definitely source a replacement timing chain cover. It would also be an idea to check the engine timing.
Keep us posted with your progress.
Keep us posted with your progress.
Toledo Man
West Yorkshire Area Organiser
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Railway, 1 Birstall Lane, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1JJ
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - a project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint), NYE 751L (1972 Dolomite 1850 auto) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!
Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.
"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle
West Yorkshire Area Organiser
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Railway, 1 Birstall Lane, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1JJ
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - a project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint), NYE 751L (1972 Dolomite 1850 auto) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!
Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.
"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle
Re: 1850 gremlins
IF the head can be skimmed the pros can fit new valve guides and of course they check the valves and re-machine the seats as necessary.
Don't try any of this yourself.
The question is with the state of the head.....
Don't try any of this yourself.
The question is with the state of the head.....
- Toledo Man
- Guest contributor
- Posts: 7542
- Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:52 pm
- Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire
- Contact:
Re: 1850 gremlins
Fitting valve guides and skimming the head has to be left to the professionals. I'm sure Bruce will know of somebody who can do the work.
Toledo Man
West Yorkshire Area Organiser
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Railway, 1 Birstall Lane, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1JJ
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - a project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint), NYE 751L (1972 Dolomite 1850 auto) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!
Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.
"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle
West Yorkshire Area Organiser
Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Railway, 1 Birstall Lane, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1JJ
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver)
2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car)
1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - a project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint), NYE 751L (1972 Dolomite 1850 auto) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!
Check my blog at http://triumphtoledo.blogspot.com
My YouTube Channel with a bit of Dolomite content.
"There is only one way to avoid criticsm: Do nothing, say nothing and BE nothing." Aristotle
Re: 1850 gremlins
Don't panic guys, don't intend to try any headwork myself. Got to check valves first and go from there, almost certain the piston marks were the reason the head was off before, but what would have marked all 4 pistons? Camchain maybe?
Cheers Rich
Cheers Rich
1981 Dolomite 1500 Auto