Gearbox woes (or are they?!)

[grifterkid]

Hello folks...

I need to ask for the expert advice of the TDC brains yet again...!!!

My gearbox seems to have a few 'characterisitcs' that I need to deal with as I'm unsure whether or not they're real problems or just personality traits.

First of all when changing down from second to first when on the move (slowing down for a junction for example) there is a distinct crunch/grinding sound that fills me with pain!

Secondly I do find it hard to engange third sometimes when changing up from second or changing down from fourth, it just doesn't seem to want to slot 'home' unless I flick it back into neutral again...

These aren't major moans as the gearbox workr well on the whole but I assume it is supposed to be a tad smoother in operation than these symptoms suggest?!

Do I just need to get it looked at by a gearbox specialist and be done with it?!

Any advice and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated by you fine people

[DoloWIGHTY]

I wouldn't worry too much about that.

First gear (I am pretty sure) is a non-syncromesh so it isn't designed to be engaged from another gear whilst in a downwards change, in fact it is that way to stop you from you doing so, okay second to first is okay but imagine if you got it wrong and were in 4th, then missed 3rd and stuck it in 1st by mistake - the engine would explode!! So, non-sycromesh will prevent that. You really shouldn't need to engage 1st whilst in motion in another gear, it's really just for moving off and maneuvering.

others sound like a worn syncros, nothing to worry about, just learn to live with it, all part of the character of the car. If they fail entirely that is the time to get another 'box (or learn to double de-clutch).

That's what I think .

[grifterkid]

Point one makes perfect sense then...

With regards to point two it's not a big gripe, just one of those things that makes me wonder why it's occuring when it decides to impede on my spritely progress...!!!

I can live with a myriad of problems on old cars but I do like to know what's causing them if I can find out.

Thanks for the response DoloWIGHTY, it is appreciated fully...

[DoloWIGHTY]

You are welcome....I just hope I've got it right that all!!!

[TrustNo1]

Im going to suggest the plastic cup socket that holds the spring at base of the lever, these can wear and cause a notchy gear change.

[cleverusername]

I wouldn't worry too much about that.

First gear (I am pretty sure) is a non-syncromesh so it isn't designed to be engaged from another gear whilst in a downwards change, in fact it is that way to stop you from you doing so, okay second to first is okay but imagine if you got it wrong and were in 4th, then missed 3rd and stuck it in 1st by mistake - the engine would explode!! So, non-sycromesh will prevent that. You really shouldn't need to engage 1st whilst in motion in another gear, it's really just for moving off and maneuvering.

others sound like a worn syncros, nothing to worry about, just learn to live with it, all part of the character of the car. If they fail entirely that is the time to get another 'box (or learn to double de-clutch).

That's what I think .

I thought that first had a syncro? I wouldn't worry about changing down into the wrong gear, it will make a bit of noise, but it is very unlikely to blowup or do any real damage. I know, I've done it more than once, problem of going from cars with a long throw to a shorter throw box.

Anyway, even with a syncro 4th to 1st is asking alot, you would still have to work to get it in.

[Toledo Man]

First gear does have a synchro. The Herald 13/60 was an all-synchomesh gearbox so "our" cars have them too. You're definitely looking at a worn synchro on the first question.

[grifterkid]

Maybe I need to get it looked at then... If things are worn out that's just not good!

[sprint95m]

When I read your post Ash, the first thing I thought of was insufficient clutch clearance.

Since your Toledo is a later model does it have the single rail 'box (reverse next to third)? Just curious, it doesn't make any difference.


Before condemning the gearbox, I would investigate the clutch hydraulics and associated mechanics.

On a Sprint the clevis hole in the clutch pedal wears (which seriously reduces the clutch operation), look for an elongated hole instead of round....
The red plastic clutch hoses are pretty good on Toledos but a stainless steel braided is better (I would try a rigid pipe of 1/4 kunifer to check first, if clearance
is better with this then go stainless steel).
Clutch master cylinders are easy to source new and relatively inexpensive (Wilwood). I don't know about the slave cylinder though, would a Wilwood push/pull
be suitable?
I cannot find a website link to it, but on Club Triumph's forum there is mention of a Triumph Spitfire conversion to a concentric clutch slave cylinder.
If you have to remove the gearbox anyway, I would definitely consider using a concentric slave.


Ian.

[Jon Tilson]

Your Tolly IIRC has the older style 3 rail box.

If you have a soggy feeling clutch peddle as Ian says new rubbers in the cylinders will work wonders.

It may well have worn synchro cones but to change them is quiet uneconomic. Just learn to double declutch.

You also dont need to change into 1st unless you are trickling along. 2nd will do on a 4.11 diff.

If your lever is floppy you can get a new bush kit from Moss. It has all the bits you need to tighten up the slop
but it sadly isnt cheap. Its common to Spits and heralds.

Blimey Alan everything has had synchro on bottom gear since Farinas and A series midgets and moggies.

Jonners

[DoloWIGHTY]

.

Blimey Alan everything has had synchro on bottom gear since Farinas and A series midgets and moggies.

WHAT!!! Next you'll be telling me they've done away with the starting handle too?

[Jon Tilson]

Well Tony tells me his MGB doesnt have one...

I bet it needs it...

Jonners

[Edin Dundee]

The early MGB's didn't have synchro on first, not sure when they sorted that out.

[Carledo]

1200 Heralds, 1600 Vitesses and MkI and MkII Spitfires had no synchro on first either. It is entirely possible that Ash's car has had one of these retrofitted (all will fit though the Vit box needs an odd centre plate in the clutch and a 4 cylinder bellhousing)
But I wouldn't repair one of these 3 railers unless it had overdrive on it! much quicker and cheaper to bung another second hand box in. With a Spit 1500 centre plate, its even possible to upgrade to a single rail box, though I suspect you'd need the matching prop to pull it off! By an odd coincidence I have in stock a single rail non O/D box (from a 1500HL) with lever and prop and a useable tunnel if need be (sensible offers by PM please)

Steve

[TrustNo1]

.

Blimey Alan everything has had synchro on bottom gear since Farinas and A series midgets and moggies.

WHAT!!! Next you'll be telling me they've done away with the starting handle too?

I have two cars with starting handles