I was sitting here wondering again about Dolomites again (as I'm sure you all have too!), and came to thinking: is there anything that couldn't potentially be replaced?
This made me think, can a car be built out of spares? Could someone just create a car out of thin air? What would happen, would you need to register it? What about the chassis? What if someone with incredible skills welded a new chassis?
I'm guessing this would mean a Dolomite registered in 2015. Could it even be called a Triumph though??
I was sitting here wondering again about Dolomites again (as I'm sure you all have too!), and came to thinking: is there anything that couldn't potentially be replaced?
This made me think, can a car be built out of spares? Could someone just create a car out of thin air? What would happen, would you need to register it? What about the chassis? What if someone with incredible skills welded a new chassis?
I'm guessing this would mean a Dolomite registered in 2015. Could it even be called a Triumph though??
You wouldn't be able to register it, it would have to pass a test, probably an SVA or something similar. Even if the shell passed modern regs, the engine wouldn't have a prayer. Too many emissions, so you would need some very expensive and complicated exhaust system to get round that.
Someone costed up a similar project for old BMWs that are now rare and valueable. Since you can get the spares for every beemer ever made. I believe the cost was 4 times that of buying a mint car.
For the Dolomite it wouldn't only be very cost ineffective, but the tooling for many parts was destroyed decades ago. Much better to buy a decent shell and start from there.
Jaguar built some brand new Lightweight E-Types but they can't be made road legal for the reasons already mentioned.
Toledo Man
West Yorkshire Area Organiser Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Railway, 1 Birstall Lane, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1JJ
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver) 2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car) 1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - a project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint), NYE 751L (1972 Dolomite 1850 auto) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!
See that's just terrible, building brand new e-types, but then not being able to make them road legal?! At least they have a lovely show piece now though!
Toledo Man wrote:Jaguar built some brand new Lightweight E-Types but they can't be made road legal for the reasons already mentioned.
I thought they could, because they already had the chasis numbers registered, but never built the cars. Could be wrong, but I thought they had found a loophole.
Which brings up another question. If a Dolly is scrapped, and I buy it from a scrapyard. Can I get it registered for the road, or has that registration ceased to exist?
I thought they could, because they already had the chasis numbers registered, but never built the cars. Could be wrong, but I thought they had found a loophole.
That is how I understood it also. Whilst Jaguar are not registering them, I'm sure if one of the new owners wanted to, they could.
As for unscrapping a scrapper, you certainly used to be able to. It might invoke a VIC these days? Back in the day, most yards would keep any V5s until the car was physically no more, so you might be lucky...
With the new Lightweight E-Types, they couldn't be registered as brand new cars so no 15 plate E-Type. Even if Jaguar registered the 6 that were never originally built, they would only exist on paper. They wouldn't need to be SORNd though...
Toledo Man
West Yorkshire Area Organiser Meetings take place on the first Wednesday of the month at 8.00pm at The Railway, 1 Birstall Lane, Drighlington, Bradford, BD11 1JJ
2003 Volvo XC90 D5 SE (PX53 OVZ - The daily driver) 2009 Mercedes-Benz W204 C200 CDI Sport (BJ58 NCV - The 2nd car) 1991 Toyota Celica GT (J481 ONB - a project car)
Former stable of SAY 414M (1974 Toledo), GRH 244D (1966 1300fwd), CDB 324L (1973 1500fwd), GGN 573J (1971 1500fwd), DCP 625S (1977 Dolomite 1300) & LCG 367N (1975 Dolomite Sprint), NYE 751L (1972 Dolomite 1850 auto) plus 5 Acclaims and that's just the Triumphs!
IF, you were able to get a NOS bodyshell (none are now known to exist, Mark had the last one) and (big IF but barely possible) you could buy every other part NOS to build a complete car, You would not have a new car, you would have a collection of old parts that had just not been used before! As such, I rather suspect that DVLA would happily register it for you on a "Q" plate which is what they do for all the other specials and kit cars and hot rods they have to deal with which have "mixed or unproveable" ancestry and you could call it whatever you like. Such a car would have to go through an SVA check (or whatever they call it now) but not the full monty euro encap tests for production vehicles. I rather suspect that Jaguar could do the same with these E types but just don't WANT to! Even if they are built from 100% brand new bits, they don't have to admit it, and if, for example the engine was made in 2012, the chassis in 2103 and the body in 2014, that would be enough to cloud the waters and qualify it for a "Q".
Steve
'73 2 door Toledo with Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 8v engine (The Carledo)
'78 Sprint Auto with Vauxhall Omega 2.2 16v engine (The Dolomega)
'72 Triumph 1500FWD in Slate Grey, Now with RWD and Carledo powertrain!
Maverick Triumph, Servicing, Repairs, Electrical, Recomissioning, MOT prep, Trackerjack brake fitting service.
Apprentice served Triumph Specialist for 50 years. PM for more info or quotes.
As mentioned, you'd have to pass an IVA test (SVA was made obsolete a few years ago).
This is the same process as applied to kit cars, and it isn't that difficult if you build with the regulations in mind all the way.
The good news is that the emissions part of the test is based on the age of the engine.
So if you could source an engine from 1976, you'd only have to pass a visible smoke test, or whatever was the test at the time that the engine was manufactured. **
You'd also have to comply with the IVA regulations, fitting mirrors with an adequate field of view, side repeaters, twin-circuit brakes with a low fluid warning light, washer bottle with a minimum 1litre capacity. The main changes would be that rear seatbelts would be required, and all contactable interior edges would have to meet a minimum 2.5mm radius test, and 19mm under the dashboard edge. All this could be done in such a way as to not change the car much at all.
Once IVA is satisfied, registration is relatively straightforward after that.
If you want to gain a current plate, you are allowed to recondition a limited number of major components, to as-new standard. I think it's one or two items. So you could recondition maybe the engine, or the differential/axle, or the gearbox etc. The rest of it has to be new (supported by receipts or other paperwork).
If you can prove the origin of parts all came from a single donor, then you can gain an age-related plate consistent with the age of the original donor (not necessarily the same plate).
Otherwise you'd be given a Q plate, which isn't a problem other than that it isn't transferrable.
But it would certainly be DO-able. In fact, a Latham managed to go through the SVA test a couple of years ago without too many problems - complete with MG-B screen and all.
** As a bit of an aside, the MOD bought a load of Rover V8 engines when Rover stopped producing them, as spares for the LandRover fleets. Many have been stored in various locations up and down the country, still in the original crates and packed in grease and well looked after. And in various MOD cost-cutting exercises, they frequently come up in clearance auctions.
They are proving very popular with kit builders, since they are effectively new engines, but come with paperwork which shows a construction date which is before the requirement to fit catalytic converters, and they require a lower emissions standard.
Well you now have the answer.
I know all about IVA as last year I finished a special using a new chassis and a Mazda MX5 turbo engine.
The emissions apply to when the engine was made but Mazda are useless at aging their engines so I needed a Cat to pass.............yet now its passed I dont need an MOT for three years and the emissions are for an engine produced in 1971 (do not expect logic where the government are involved )
If a car has been made from a variety of parts it has to have a Q plate and this cannot be transfered.
A new Dolomite would be best made using a known chassis and then welding so much its new
I wont make another and though it needed 2 goes at passing the cost was nearly £600 for IVA then £56 (I think) to register plus tax.
In 1995 there were 120 kit manufacturers in this country and now I suspect just a few remain.
Finally I doubt whether a Dolomite could pass an IVA test which is based on a 300 page rule book.
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