Problem with water pump rebuild

[cliftyhanger]

Spent today trying to sort the water leak on the Tr7 engine in the Tolly.
Everything came apart OK, found the 3/4" hose from the pump cover split (luckily now not later) and got he cover off. Pulled the pump/cage out.
Dismantled, noticing the water seal looked rather past its best. And the face on the impeller looked OK.
Fit new bearing water seal etc and get to the new water seal (supplied by Paddocks) when it started to go wrong. The seal was one of these

http://www.ldparts.co.uk/shop/shop.php? ... d=sidd6fb2.

as in has teh white ceramic disc. No instructions on this at all, so tried to fit to teh pump, and the impeller was done up. But the new seal is just too big and locks the impeller.

A google found the LD parts instructions, so I removed the ceramic disc and the rubber tube/spring part. Assembled the pump, refitted, and ran the car up. 5 mins later water pouring out of the slot under the pump. As in loads.

So, what have I done wrong? I notice the ceramic ring is more than the 3mm thick that teh impeller would be machined down by, so that would create a bit more tension in the water seal. Or should I use the spring? but despite pulling it all apart there is no way I can see to fit the spring that came with the new seal that makes any sense.

Please, anybody got any pointers?

[Flyfisherman]

Clive

have a read at the attached may be useful.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7214

Paul

[cliftyhanger]

Hmm, doesn't help I am afraid.
What is annoying is there are no instructions with the seal, yet the LD parts site says to discard white ceramic ring and rubber sleeve/tube. No mention of the spring which has no way of fitting. So I am stuck!
I will phone Paddocks Tuesday, after all if it is not a direct fit they need to explain what needs to be done. It seems a PITA to be honest, especially as the paddocks site shows a picture of what I would call a "normal" seal.

[Tony Burd]

Buy a rebuild kit from Tony Hart the stag man, used them twice now with no problems.

[PollyB]

Apparently (from someone who knows) what you need to do is this.
The white ring is a ceramic seal and the impeller needs to be machined to insert and glue the ceramic seal.
The plastic bit is discarded, it is just there to hold the ceramic seal.
The spring loaded piece with a graphite ring goes in the brass cage.
This is a very good solution and preferable to the original but it does need this extra machining. 'It will never leak again.'

[cliftyhanger]

but where/how does the new spring fit? There really does not seem to be an obvious answer. I have tried a few ideas, but none look like a "good" solution.

I am indeed wondering if a different supplier is required. Will look into Tony Hart.

[Jon Tilson]

You have taken too much out of the seal....Sounds like you removed the seal and the graphite ring too.

You still need the graphite ring and the spring that presses it against the impeller. This will work as long as your
impeller surface is in good condition.

I improved on that thread and its now in the dolly wiki here...

https://dollywiki.co.uk/wiki/Water_Pump_Overhaul

The seal needs to look like it does in the top picture on the posted LD parts page, with the ceramic bit taken out.

Jonners

[cliftyhanger]

Graphite seal is still in place, but the issue is that the rubber tube sleeve which has the spring as part of it just does not fit in any conceivable way. I am struggling, and suspect the seal as supplied if for another car

[Dolly-Nut]

Graphite seal is still in place, but the issue is that the rubber tube sleeve which has the spring as part of it just does not fit in any conceivable way. I am struggling, and suspect the seal as supplied if for another car

I've tried fitting that type before and yes they're damn tight. I think i sanded it down until it just about went it and used sealer to keep it there.

[Flyfisherman]

Graphite seal is still in place, but the issue is that the rubber tube sleeve which has the spring as part of it just does not fit in any conceivable way. I am struggling, and suspect the seal as supplied if for another car

remove the inner rubber sleeve it purely there of transporation purposes for the faces of the ceramic ring or polo ring (the white ring) and the graphite seal which sit on top of the seal that fit inside the brass cage dont get damaged.

You purchase item 148322 - which arrived as one item - remove the inner black rubber sleeve, now you have three pieces. The impellor or vane requires machining the accept the white ceramic ring or polo ring the item with the graphite seal attached push into the brass cage, which leaves you with one item left - BIN IT not required - this posting tell you what to do

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7214&start=15#p110850

You right about supplied for other car - Triumph stag, dolomite and TR7 which have the same water pump mechanisum - but the vanes are different 12 or 6 vane

[cliftyhanger]

Ah, that post helps a lot.
The seal and "polo ring" indeed similar, however, the big difference is the spring. The one supplied with mine was tapered and came out with the sleeve. However, the pic you posted shows how the spring should fit, so hopefully solves the puzzle!

I just wish it had come with a few clues! would have saved me loads of grief.

Thank you for that link, it has hopefully solved the mystery. Not totally convinced that the spring arrangement is that clever, it looks like the bottom of the seal should be supported (I found a reference to the seals originating on a perkins diesel) but hopefully it will be OK.

Will report back once fitted back in the car.

[cliftyhanger]

To bring to a conclusion....
I decided to machine the impellor. So managed to borrow a friends lathe (or rather time on it) and take the required 3mm off, and then stuck the ceramic ring in place (instructions said RTV, but in the end I used JB weld. I hope this is OK long term)
Today I popped it all back together, and thankfully leak-free even after a damn good thrashing.

Hopefully that ceramic ring will mean a very long service life.