The Triumph Dolomite Club - Discussion Forum

The last time I posted was over a year ago I think when I was struggling with a bunch of issues arising from various bits of work on my Sprint.

The underlying issue I have with the car is that I barely use it - this is partly through having a Cooper S to drive daily and partly because with the Sprints issues I just get more and more put off driving it at all. It is a vicious circle to an extent

I've decided I really need to get to the bottom of a few issues though. Then, with it in good shape, hopefully I'll be encouraged to use it more. It's not helped at all by it being at the back of a tandem garage .... behind the Mini.

There are five possible issues, although one might be an imposter. I'm going to re-open two old threads regarding two of the issues - for continuity and to help any people in need of help in the future. For the 3rd and 4th I'll start a new thread and the last one I'll cover below :

1. Unpleasant booming vibration
2. Rear axle leak
3. Possibly odd camber on the front wheels
4. Front brakes binding
5. Floaty steering

So the other threads are imminent but here, I'd like to ask what people think of their steering vs modern cars. My Sprint has Gaz shocks, uprated springs, poly bushes and solid rack mounts and I find the steering has a heap of slack. I wouldn't say it's floaty, meaning that it goes where you've pointed it but the steering wheel movement feels like its got about 20+ degrees of slack in it. Comparing it with a modern Mini isn't a good comparison to make either.

I'm interested to know how others find the steering on the 35+ yr old cars?

Thinking about it, the other thing with the steering is that it doesn't centre back properly when coming out of a turn; it never really did since its rebuild in 2002 (since which its done few miles though remember).

That's the first question, thanks in advance.

mark

I have no clue how your Dolly feels, and I have no idea how far you are from good steering, compared to modern. But I feel it handles very well.

But I can see that a lot of your issues is regarding steering, both corse and problem.
I would recommend you took it to an alignment shop and have it sougthed out!
Because that would take the most of you problems out, in one go!

And the sticky brakes comes from the non-use, the steering caused.

So this is what I do;

1 Alligment ASAP
2 Install front brake upgrade from our friend trackerjac
3 drive it hard and a lot,
4 come bad season, or the first chance you have it on the ramp, swap the gasket for the rear an get some miles on that puppy of pure happy motoring.

That's what you and the car needs and deserves!

What is the vibration coming from? Suspension, brakes, engine, drive train, tire or where?
Can you make it come and go? Can you force it?

See other thread Brynk, thanks

Stiff steering and a reluctance to go exactly where you think it should could be the steering knuckle as it enters engine bay. These little bad boys are better caked in oil and give trouble if cleaned and not used.
Sprints do feel a little vague compared with a modern but its a leap of faith to just give it some stick and surprise yourself at how it responds by sticking down.

Sort the steering out.
The advice above from the lads is good, but I would suggest you have a look at the flexible coupling on the intermediate steering shaft
between the column and the rack. This has rubber bits in which deteriorate and lead to the symptoms you describe.

Once that is sorted then see how you go. A geometry check is your next step if you are still not happy. If the car has suspension mods
then it may not be quite right camber and tracking wise, especially if lowered. Steering feel is very dependent on the geometry being right.

Sprints can be made very accurate of steer. Sadly a lot of cars aren't as good as they could or should be.

On your other points I suspect you have a pinion seal that is past the sell by date. This isn't hard to sort. The vibration you are taling about could be anything from a flat spotted tyre to a shot prop shaft bearing or u/j. The one at the back will also make that pinion seal worse.

All your issues are solveable with a bit of application. Your cooper will soon loose more money than your Sprint is worth, so drive it more, get it right and think about running more than one classic with no moderns at all. I did that when I was younger ...

Jonners

OK, thanks for all the feedback.

I agree about the alignment shop in principle but LOL at the expectation of anyone here fixing a problem on this type/age of car beyond simply getting the tracking correct. So the way I'm thinking is I need to resolve any obvious issues and then get the tracking done.

In terms of flexible couplings etc the other job I recently did was to replace the collapsed lower steering column bush. In doing that I've refitted the couplings - see hard to take photos below . The top coupling is UJ and pretty sure I was going to fit lower UJ one as well until I found the two parts wouldn't fit properly in the available space. I think the spline was too long I can't remember. Bless Rimmers.

So it does have the rubber bits but I don't think they are too shot. See, as best you can, in photos.

To be honest I don't think the steering has ever been right since it was rebuilt. It has always had some play and a reluctance to re-center (noting all and any other issues are more recent). Maybe it didn't get put back together right in the shims department? Again finding someone here who has any idea how to fix that might be a challenge......I think its also possible the rack is knackered.

Axle leak and vibration are issues raised before actually Jon - can you please take a re-squint at the other threads? The axle leak is out of the end of one half shaft and prior advice was to use a front gearbox seal instead. Just disappointed to have to re-do it ! I re-opened old thread just to seek some opinions on latest and sourcing of seal.

The vibration is horrible and separate thread also now with many photos of exhaust non clearance of sub frame, engine mounts and gearbox mount.

Thank you

Mark

That is some clever photography there being able to get that bottom universal into focus as you have done. I replaced those rubber bushes with some old stock I had and they lasted only a few months before I replaced them with something a bit harder and purchased, in my case, from the local Lotus dealer who is up in Auckland.

I discovered that the problems that I had were all in that upper universal joint. I fitted one from Rimmers, it took a wee bit of work to get it to fit nicely. I ran a wire buff longitudinally up and down the splines until the bottom universal was free to slide up and down easily. I had a small problem with the universal binding at an acute angle but Rimmers seem to bend over backwards to service those of us who live far away. It is never an issue that cannot be resolved for they will happily replace at the drop of a hat.

My suggestion would be to try and fit that replacement upper steering shaft for if there is any play whatsoever in the upper universal it will be magnified when you are driving on the road. I was getting a lot of vibration fed back up through the steering column for we still, in this part of the world, have gravel surfaced roads which develop ruts and corrugations all the time.

Keep at it and don’t give up. Remember it is a British car and we now have the knowledge and expertise to sort these issues out.

Robert

Hi R352

Thanks. Nothing too clever - just an SLR zoom pointed through the gap and manually focussed while the subject was lit by a portable worklight !

My car has the upper shaft with the UJ and was going to have the lower rubber-grommet-flexi-coupling replaced with the lower UJ coupling that Rimmers do. When I went to fit them together they wouldn't because the spline on the upper shaft was too long so I refitted the old part.

I seriously doubt the upper shaft has any wear since the car has had little use since it was fitted but I will check it I think. The question then is whether the new upper shaft parts have a shorter spline in which case one answer would be to order one and then use both parts. Alternatively - thinking about it - there's nothing to stop me cutting a bit off the splined end of the current one.

I really doubt the steering play is resulting from these couplings although it is possible the flexi lower coupling isn't helping. It's a course of investigation. I just suspect it's play in the rack plus some weird suspension geometry problem per other threads.

I've never found the Sprint steering to be super precise - ie without play at all - but the current situation needs fixing as it goes above and beyond

thks

1. Floaty steering.

Can you measure in inches the actual amount of free-play you have at the steering wheel rim before any wheel movement. ( With the wheels on solid ground ) please.

Are the tyre pressures O.K. just looking at basic stuff ? Over inflated tyres give exactly that effect. Even one over-inflated tyre will.

Then when all the play in the steering has been eliminated I'd go for complete 4 wheel alignment with castor and camber. About £50 here in the U.K.
For instance If the front wheels are toeing out it gives very strange steering characteristics. Has there been any rear-end damage so the rear axle is bent ?
Are the rear end bushes all O.K. as well ?
Tony.

Hi M.Wielder - I just tried this with my son moving the steering wheel while I monitored the hubs. It was on stands with wheels off so not exactly what you suggested below but we double-checked it a couple of times and it also reconfirmed when viewing the hub and operating the wheel with one hand.

The variance was as shown in photo below. Do you think there would appear to be more slack if the wheel was under load? I'm not sure I see that - either the play is taken up (and the hub/wheel moves) or it isn't.

Side issue - how do you get photos to insert in the text. Mine tack on the end only. The "Place inline" button does nothing.

Anyway, so there's the slack. Not much more than 10 degrees if that I would have thought.

No rear end damage that I know of. Rear bushes OK I believe, gave them a once over before so think they are OK. Tyres OK.

I think the car had a front corner accident before I owned. Fairly sure I remember being told that but looked OK and since rebuilt with new front wings and numerous related bits anyway. There are some historical weirdnesses :

- when bought and prior to any type of upgrades (I may have put cheap std shocks on it representing a change prior to majir upgrades I can't recall) the car never had any issues in this dept. Steering OK and car sat level

- at some point I gave it the Gaz shocks and it had a whole of body rebuild and respray. I think that was all around the same time but again not sure. Hardly matters, either way when I put the adjustable Gax units on I found one side at the front had to be wound a fair bit further out than the other for it to all sit level. Kind of an alarm bell but nothing I could do about it.

- and after rebuild (which incl sub frame off and suspension rebuilds) the car still sat level (per adj fix) but steering felt like it had more play and didn't centre properly. In other words the current issues. I wouldn't say it was exactly floaty. When driving it feels planted enough just that there's more movement in the steering wheel than expected prior to action and of course it needs some assistance to re-centre.

I feel like this has more to do with underlying geometry - somehow, somewhere - than it with any excessive slack in the steering components.

But welcome everyone else's 2c.

And just to bump the thread would really like some comment on the "new vibration after recent work" thread, specifically re state of eng and gearbox mounts.

Thanks

I measured the free play at my steering wheel rim just now.
Wheels on the ground; straight ahead position.
It came out at just 3/8in.

Yes it will make a difference if the front is hanging free. The measurement will be a lot worse when the wheels are on the ground. The additional force needed to move ( for instance ) the rack inner joints, to compress any soggy rubber in the lower coupling with the wheels on solid concrete will all add up. In addition if you look at your photo of the track rod arms when hanging it is a long way from the nearly horizontal set-up when on the road.
Then you can start to look at where all this lost motion is coming from.

OK all good points.

This may wait until caliper overhaul kits arrive from the UK and I've fitted them. Then when the wheels are back on I'll put the car back on the floor and re check this. Or I might do it in the next couple of days. Either way I'll get back to this thread

thks

olr159w wrote: 2. Rear axle leak

mark

I was working on mine today and I was reminded that one cause of leaking oil is a blocked breather. The 1850 one is located on the top side of the axle on the offside close to where the diff back plate is.
No terribly likely but worth a quick check.

I agree a long shot but worth checking.

So the breather is on the actual axle tube, not on the diff ?

thks

I've been trying to locate the breather without confirmed luck

See 3rd grade sketch below. So we're, ahem, looking from the back of the car on this masterpiece and the doodle in the circle represents the filler plug.

On the actual diff casing - not the rear cover - there is something sitting vertically at the spot marked by the arrow that feels like it might be the breather. I couldn't sight it at the moment due to the front of the car being jacked up!

Anyway is that the location of the breather? Whatever it is that is sitting there is not a loose cotter pin but some kind of rigid vertical "thing" maybe 1cm tall.

What is this breather like on a Sprint - the cotter pin of the TR6 or actually this : http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-21H6060.

It does feel like the latter. How would you even tell whether it's blocked though ??

thks