Strange camber?

[olr159w]

See here first : viewtopic.php?f=4&t=32294

When I started the Sprint recently I looked at it in the drive and started wondering whether the wheel camber looked right. It wasn't a big thing but enough for me to look twice and then three times.

I am probably imagining it and the following pictures definitely don't do it justice but it looked a bit like the front wheel were splayed out particularly on the OS.

I'd welcome any thoughts on it although it is not a distinct thing and hard to see in the photos. Even if you can't tell anything from the photos what would cause this effect anyway ie bottom of wheel appearing further out than top ?

Thanks

[geeksteve]

Missing the camber shims maybe?

[olr159w]

No I think they are in there. All that's good since it was rebuilt years ago. This is a slight thing that seemed to be showing up recently - since I had the front suspension apart

[trackerjack]

Its possible that the car is toeing out and causing the suspension to splay, it should have slight toe in.
3/4 deg neg should suffice.

[Jon Tilson]

I would suspect the inner wishbone bush where it joins on the subframe. These wear and cause the camber that your car looks to have, although your car does look a bit extreme in this respect.

Not quite so easy to sort your issues down under, but still doable...

I'd try and stick with the OE type rose joint bush but you can go poly on these if you have supply issues.

Jonners

[olr159w]

Hi Jon

When you say inner wishbone bush which one do you mean?

Do you mean the main lower arm where it joins the subframe with the large circular bushing?

When the car was rebuilt most of the suspension bushes were switched to poly. That's ages ago and in the recent work I noticed a couple had split. So in that recent work I did the front lower arm inner bushes, front shock bushes, tie bar bushes and of course the rear subframe per other thread.

Which means I just did the lower arm inner bushes. I can't fully remember but I think when I removed them they were the older bushes with metal plates/washers fitting on each side of the rubber bush all within the circular hole at the end of the arm. Not sure what a rose jointed bush actually is because the google definition doesn't seem to align with anything applicable in our case ??!?

Plus I also did the upper and lower balljoints so that - the theory goes - no possible problems could have arisen. Although I didn't touch the inner ends of the upper wishbone.

And yet here we are.

Here's a couple of photos.

[Reg]

Which means I just did the lower arm inner bushes. I can't fully remember but I think when I removed them they were the older bushes with metal plates/washers fitting on each side of the rubber bush all within the circular hole at the end of the arm.

Hello..yep, he means those.

You are not alone..I have had two Sprints that have done this.

The first Sprint I had, I replaced the bushes with the nos metal type and the wheels were spot on.

My current one however still looks rubbish on one side! I put nos in..still the same, I put Superflex Black Poly ones in..still the same.
I was getting concerned at this point. I then bought nos arms with bushes already installed from Rimmers..(my way of thinking was that maybe the mounting holes on the arms were drilled slightly in the wrong place)..and it was still the same.

No amount of shims have sorted this out.

I've come to the idea that either the mounting hole on the subframe or the hub end have been drilled slightly out of line on the affected side..

I've had to get used to it..still very annoying though.

Sorry I can't give you a constructive answer, and sorry to hijack your thread with my woes..but just trying to save you time, money and effort!

It would be great if you could find the problem..I will buy you a virtual beer!

Best of luck!

[tony g]

Another thing, if youre going to recheck the bushes etc, those shock adjusters will hit the top ball joint on full compression, so undo the bottom bolts and twist it 180 deg. Its actually deceiving but as the angle changes the shock "leans" towards the ball joint. Actually easier to adjust those with the wheel on when facing inboard.

Tony

[olr159w]

tony g - thanks for that warning; I'll look to flick them around when the opportunity arises

reg - thanks. As an aside, what does rose jointed actually mean though? A rubber bush with lipped edges and a face plate/washer set into those lipped edges makes it rose jointed ? Kind of boring outcome for such an exotic sounding thing.

I appreciate the info to help stop me wasting time and money. Kinda demoralising though.....

I can't actually remember why I changed these bushes when I was doing the others. I'm sure I chucked all the bits out incl the end washers etc. But my issues is that the car never showed this effect before; I changed some of the suspension bushes because they were split and now its back together this weird effect happens. I replaced worn stuff with new stuff..... if anything it should have got better !!

It's almost like one needs to have the original style bushing ie plate-bush-plate = rose jointed.

[soe8m]

Rose joint is a like a spherical bearing. No rubber involved, only metal. You can say the original front lower bush is a rose joint. The term rose is an manufacturers name. If i would manufacture them they would be called Jeroen joints. But those are a whole different story.

Jeroen

[olr159w]

Jeroen

Hi. Thanks. That description is what I understood from the wiki description.

And so completely unlike the lower wishbone arm inner bush then - which was rubber, with lipped washers on either side and located in the circular open inner end of the suspension arm.

[soe8m]

Some replace that inner bush by a superflex one but i think that's a downgrade. The only bush, actualy it's a bearing, that should be left original is that one. The 1300 fwd had a rubber bush on that spot but has a different fitment.

Jeroen

[soe8m]

The front pul rods can be shortened by 15mm to have a better roadholding and improved centrating.

Jeroen

[Jon Tilson]

The OE bush on a dolomite is a rose jointed affair, as Jeroen already described.

It has the dished metal washers either side.

Funny that you and Reg both have this issue. If you have the new OE style rose joint it will move slightly in a horizontal plain when "run in". Its usually too stiff to detect when new and is only a few degrees.

Poly are supposed to do the same but I have never used them and won't until the OE supply is exhausted.

It may be that you both have the wrong or no shims on your wishbone mounting bracket. An extra one on the offending side will push the top out and give you a more reasonable camber and improved steering feel.

Not that yours felt odd in that respect Reg but I guess when I drove it last the carbs were more the object of interest.

Jonners

[olr159w]

It does appear to be a strange coincidence but what is much stranger from my perspective is that my car didn't have this problem prior to replacing the rear subframe mounts and some of the front suspension bushes

That seems quite inexplicable. You would think there might be a connection but what? I didn't touch the top wishbones.