Handbrake know how needed

[Dunhookin]

Hi Guys

Compliments of the season and HNY - here's to a better 2021.

I'm hoping for some learned intel with the rear brakes on my 1980, 1850 automatic. Specifically the handbrake - which is basically woeful. The car has a full set of new braking components, shoes, springs, wheel cylinders and handbrake cable in 2017. It's done 800 miles since.

Removing the drums today, I see that the handbrake operating lever sits in a cut out in the shoe which allows about 2 inches of play before the shoe makes contact with the drum. The handbrake itself stands up vertically at the end of it's travel like Big Ben and the handbrake cable has almost zero adjustment left - and still the hand brake is iffy at best.

I cannot imagine that this is how the factory intended. I feel I'm missing something, can anyone please shed any light? Thank you

Best regards

Andy H

[Carledo]

There should be 2 small H shaped plates wedged in the holes in the brake shoes that the lever arm bears on, exactly where your gap is .
The handbrake is useless without them, the club sells stainless steel replicas for a few quid. Problem solved!

Steve

[Galileo]

Going to say the same as Steve. Take a look at the H shaped shim (shoe?) far bottom right.

[Dunhookin]

Bingo - thank you fellas - very helpful. I'll get some of those 'H' shims and look forward to a functioning handbrake!

One other thing - my brake master cylinder has just started leaking from the two seals where the reservoir locates into the cylinder. The cylinder itself was professionally re-sealed some years ago. Rimmers offer a seal kit - which I imagine would be the pressure seals for the piston - would the reservoir seals be included in the kit?

[Carledo]

Bingo - thank you fellas - very helpful. I'll get some of those 'H' shims and look forward to a functioning handbrake!

One other thing - my brake master cylinder has just started leaking from the two seals where the reservoir locates into the cylinder. The cylinder itself was professionally re-sealed some years ago. Rimmers offer a seal kit - which I imagine would be the pressure seals for the piston - would the reservoir seals be included in the kit?

Dont know about the Rimmers kit, various NOS and repro seal kits i've had for the dual circuit master from Fitchetts over the years don't include the reservoir seals.

However, the club supply an uprated dual circuit master with the bore opened up and lined with a stainless sleeve. Since they completely reseal these cylinders as part of the process, the reservoir seals must come from somewhere!

TBH, i've not had much joy reconditioning old dual circuit cylinders, despite 50 years in the motor trade i've not been able to keep the fluid in for long. Now the club supplied one is easily available (until then, the dually was in very short supply and correspondingly pricey) I just tend to bite the bullet and buy a club one, they are as close to fit and forget as you can get with brake parts!

Steve

[xvivalve]

Stainless sleeved tandem cylinder is £105.00 inc carriage on an exchange basis.

Stainless steel 'H' shims £3.00/pair inc postage

Both are in stock.

[dollyman]

Bingo - thank you fellas - very helpful. I'll get some of those 'H' shims and look forward to a functioning handbrake!

One other thing - my brake master cylinder has just started leaking from the two seals where the reservoir locates into the cylinder. The cylinder itself was professionally re-sealed some years ago. Rimmers offer a seal kit - which I imagine would be the pressure seals for the piston - would the reservoir seals be included in the kit?

Don't forget to disconnect the handbrake cable from the levers as well Andy, before you manually adjust the self adjusters or you still won't have a good handbrake even with the "H" shims.

Tony.

[Dunhookin]

Thanks again fellas, useful stuff. I made up and fitted some H shims, which improved the handbrake a fair bit, though it's still not that good. The OS is holding well, but the NS isn't - and I'm using all the available adjustment on the (new) handbrake cable. It feels like I need another inch or so of cable adjustment...

I still have to pull the handbrake on and release it several times to see if that improves things. Any other suggestions gratefully received.

Regarding the leaking brake master cylinder reservoir seals - and buying a replacement cylinder on an exchange basis from the club - does the new cylinder come with the reservoir attached? Thank you

[Carledo]

You will almost certainly have to wind the self adjuster dogs up manually. They didn't work very well when new, now they are old they simply don't work at all.

Do it with the cables disconnected from the clevis pins as Tony said and wind them up till you can only just get the drum on over the shoes and movement on the lever arm is minimal. If it's hard to get the drum on and still plenty of arm movement, check the drums for rusty lips and grind them away with a flapwheel, then try more adjustment. It also helps to give the slip fitted drum a clout or two at regular intervals in the adjustment process to center the shoes. One more thing, make sure the cylinders slide reasonably easily in the backplates or the adjustment process will be hindered.

Steve

[xvivalve]

Regarding the leaking brake master cylinder reservoir seals - and buying a replacement cylinder on an exchange basis from the club - does the new cylinder come with the reservoir attached? Thank you

Yes, it does. With all new seals too.

[Dunhookin]

Thanks xvivalve for confirming, I have the master cylinder and reservoir off the car ready to send off in exchange.

The handbrake saga continues though. I've followed the very good advice on here which has improved matters considerably. The OS handbrake is spot on - but not the NS. I've had to drum off again and removed the lip around the edge of it, which made a small improvement.

The problem is the drum will only fit over the shoes when the adjuster is turned almost fully off. Trial and error has shown that turning the adjuster out anymore means the drum can only be fitted with help from a copper hammer - which causes the hub to lock up and a battle to get the drum off again.

Some years back, the NSR brakes stuck on (can't remember why exactly) the owner nursed it home and I went to have a look. The hub was so seriously hot it had to be left until the next day. That has made me wonder - whether the drum could have warped as it got so hot? Anyone heard of that before?

Best

Andy H

[dollyman]

Hi Andy, there is a possibility that the wheel cyl is seized (even after 800miles) or as Steve has said is the cyl sliding on the back plate? Also are the shoes fitted correctly?

Tony.

[Bumpa]

Is it possible to chuck the dreadful "auto" adjusters in the bin and fit some sort of manual adjuster? I have an MGB as well as the Dolly and the MGB's rear drums are a doddle by comparison.

[dollyman]

Is it possible to chuck the dreadful "auto" adjusters in the bin and fit some sort of manual adjuster? I have an MGB as well as the Dolly and the MGB's rear drums are a doddle by comparison.

The only way i can think of Mike is drilling a hole in the drum or backplate to do it with a screwdriver. I don't really have a problem as it's not a daily driver, but i know what you mean.

Tony.

[Dunhookin]

Thanks fellas. I will check that the adjuster/wheel cylinder slides on the backplate ok - I can't fully check whether it responds to the pedal yet as the master cylinder is off ready to be sent off for overhaul.

I'm going to switch brake drums over tonight to eliminate the possibility that the NS drum is out of true.

I'm pretty much 100% sure the shoes and springs are fitted and located correctly using the diagram provided on here and the factory workshop manual. So assuming that the adjuster slides on the backplate ok, it's not seized and the drum is serviceable - I'm plum out of ideas.

Lastly, I need to send off my duff master cylinder to the club spares as an exchange item for a rebuilt one. I can't see any contact details anywhere, how to pay etc - can anybody please point me in the right direction? Thank you