Replacement lowering shocks (& springs?)

[Uncletravellingmatt]

Hi All

1st post, of sorts, here!
I purchased Mr Storey's rebuilt 1500tc recently and have been working away at flatting and polishing the paint, still a long way to go but want to sort out the current stilt like (in my opinion!) stance and drop it a bit to give a little more purposeful and aggressive appearance!

I know these vehicles arent necessarily designed to be in the weeds but would like to drop it a little.

I have been looking at the Rimmer Gaz adjustables, both rebound and seat height but the question arises....
Now obviously the best and most sensible way to drop the car is reduce the seat height as it allows a myriad of height possibilities.

The question is, shortened springs as well or reuse existing standard ones? I am happy with the general ride, relatively sharp turning for such an old vehicle and pretty cruisy to ride in, i just dont want to uprate the springs and make the ride too harsh?

Has anyone had any comparison of the 2, shortened shorts & std springs compared to uprated and shorted springs?

[Carledo]

Buy the ASP Gaz by all means, I use them myself and am very happy with them.

But PLEASE don't buy shorter springs, you end up with an uncomfortably low and very crashy riding car. The Gaz are designed to run with a spring of a stock free length. And British roads are unforgiving to cars that have too stiff springs.

My recipe, proven on several Dolomites is standard Sprint front springs and standard whatever-model-you-started-with rears. Married to Gaz ASP coilovers all round.

The Dolomite doesn't like to be very low, too many things scrape on the floor, exhaust, front subframe, sometimes even the sump. Besides that, lowering the car too far raises the rear roll centre with a detrimental effect on roadholding, been there, done that, have the T shirt.

A Sprint you can drop only about an inch, max 1.5 inch. Toledos and the older NON HL OHV models can go a bit more but only cos they start higher, I'd say 2.5 inch absolute max.

Regarding Rimmers springs, i'd say be careful of buying either lowered or uprated springs. They seldom seem to do what it says on the box, especially when applied to any model that ISN'T a Sprint.

HTH, Steve

[Uncletravellingmatt]

Thanks Steve, reply much appreciated.

I was considering just dropping the height with the adjustable seat gaz shocks and you’ve confirmed my thoughts, I like the ride and handle of the std springs just not the height.
Nigel, previous owner also suggested the same, now question is whether the std front springs would suffice or do I really need the sprint front? It won’t really get much spirited driving as it’s more of a cruiser than a thrasher!

[Carledo]

How hard is too hard is very subjective.

I used the Sprint stock springs initially because they are pretty much the only ones you can buy new by part number these days. I stuck with them because they give me (subjective opinion) a good balance between handling and comfort. But I tried them (used ones) on the Carledo on standard shox and got a monster truck stance, simply because the 2 door Toledo is so much lighter! But with the Gaz ASPs you can contol the height very well.

There is another factor for you to take into consideration. The Toledo and 1500FWD came with smaller diameter front springs than the Dolomite/Sprint. (rears are the same throughout) This was standardized at the larger diameter in the range rationalization of 76. But, of course, that means that the shox and topmounts were specifically smaller to match. Now forgive my ignorance, but I don't KNOW if your 1500TC has the smaller or larger diameter front springs, but my suspicion is that it has the smaller ones. However the Gaz spring seats, as supplied are for the larger diameter springs, so you MAY need to change the springs and topmounts to match the shox. If you do, I can supply a couple of larger dia topmounts to complete the setup.

OTOH, I may be wrong, or the coilovers could have been replaced earlier with bigger ones, it's been known! But I suggest you measure them! I'll dig up the numbers tomorrow.

Steve

[Uncletravellingmatt]

Morning Steve

I am not sure what size springs are in mine, i suspect they have already been changed to the bigger dolly springs/shocks but will get up and check.
Currently i am tempted to whip the old sets out and just reuse the springs (assuming they are the right size) if it turns out to be too soft and wallowy then i can always whip a replacement set of sprint ones in, not sure whats in there already! (I'll check with Nigel)

My thinking is that all we are doing is reducing the location of the spring along the length of the shock, due to the adjustable plates so the spring strength (lbs) should make any difference to the ride, only the height. Although i guess if they are too soft and the belly is nearer the road then may allow the underside to hit if not sufficiently heavily sprung.

[MIG Wielder]

When I lowered my Sprint back in the days, I forgot the check the tracking after and wore out 2 front tyres very quickly.
Also worth checking the camber and adjusting the geometry with the shims behind the upper suspension arm.
HTH,
Tony.

[Uncletravellingmatt]

Thanks Tony, yeah once it’s done I’ll get it reset, need to have a look at the steering as it’s got a bit of play between the wheels and the steering wheel too

[Carledo]

Thanks Tony, yeah once it’s done I’ll get it reset, need to have a look at the steering as it’s got a bit of play between the wheels and the steering wheel too

There is rather a lot of play built into the Dolomite steering even before anything wears out. Like the rubber bushes in the steering rack mounts and the rubber bushes in the lower column coupling next to the rack. Depends how far you want to go! I use solid alloy rack mounts and a T2000 lower coupling which makes the steering pin sharp, but you can also get poly bushes for the rack mounts which improve it somewhat. Also make sure the column bush in the bulkhead is in good order and replace it with a superflex one if it's worn.

Steve

[Uncletravellingmatt]

Thanks Steve,
I have been doing quite a bit of googling and searching through here, one of the threads i found was yours about the 2000 UJ so once the springs/shocks are sorted will look into the various rubber bushes.
Doesnt wander or anything but there is some movement on the steering wheel, just doesnt feel very planted if you know what i mean, driving like BA Baracus when its on the move. Stationary i reckon there is about 2" of steering play.

All in all its a well sorted motor, engine was rebuilt by Nigel and Mart so that side is sorted, all welding is done, just needs fettling and paintwork sorting.
Few rusty bits around some edges but think its going to end up a useable classic and a little ratty, as long as i can jump in and not panic about major bits falling off and not get too precious over it, i have a trailer queen Vw already for that misery!

[killysprint]

Hi

Just to back up what Steve (Carledo) has said.

When I bought my sprint it had spam adjustables and lowered and uprated springs on the car.

The car had a nose down, bum (being polite) up stance, and the ride and handling was terrible. I had some std shocks from years ago and comparing them with the spax, found the seats on the front spax were actually about 1-1 1/4inches below that of std. Hence combined with the lowered springs the front of the car was sitting much lower than it should.

Changed the shocks to AVO's, with adjustable seats and rate, kept the lowered uprated springs and found it hard to get the compromise of ride height and quality. Now run std springs, and the AVO's, with the seat about an inch off the bottom of the adjustment thread, and the rate at it softest and its spot on.

for the steering, ii have solid rack mounts on both sides from jigsaw. Back in the day it was thought that the best option was one solid mount and the std one on the other side. Sprintspares (southend) used to sell a kit to do this. Have a search as I think a member had some made a couple of years ago. Also worth up grading or changing the column bushing when doing the UJ's.

And the car is fully poly bushed, with the upper front suspension arms being a solid nylon bush (another sprintspares mod from the late 80s/ early 90's)

Took some messing about to get there on my car, but worth it.

[Uncletravellingmatt]

Definitely some thought to be put into this, think i will need springs too, together with top plates as i suspect i still have the smaller springs, a la 1500tc.

Or shall i just bring it into work and warm the existing ones with the gas axe, old school stylie!

[Carledo]

Definitely some thought to be put into this, think i will need springs too, together with top plates as i suspect i still have the smaller springs, a la 1500tc.

Or shall i just bring it into work and warm the existing ones with the gas axe, old school stylie!

Don't tell anyone, but when I was building the Carledo back in 2010, I was near enough skint and couldn't afford the Gaz. So when I put the used Sprint coilovers on it and got the "gasser" stance, (coupled with a very hard and twitchy rear end) I just cut 4" out of the free length of the front springs and refitted the Toledo rear springs till I could afford the proper kit! I fitted the cut ends at the top to hide my shame (mostly from MOT testers, no exemption then) I still have the cut down springs as a souvenir, 12+ years later!

But this brings me to another point, whilst the front end of a Dolomite is pretty forgiving of heavier duty springs (more forgiving than my spine these days) the rear end emphatically ISN'T! This was particularly noticeable on my VERY light (760kg kerb weight) 2 door car, but still applies to 4 door cars too. You NEED to run the rear very soft, to maintain the car's balance and stop it bouncing round corners. Hence my advice to retain whatever rear springs the car came with!

On the steering coupling, Chris Witor supplies the coupling and is also the agent for "Superflex" polybushes which are, in my opinion and that of most owners on here, the very best quality Polybushes money can buy (if not the cheapest) Shaun Roche on here had the solid rack mounts made and a lovely job they are too. The earlier design that Jigsaw made is now a little out of favor and anyhow Jigsaw are no longer trading due to the ill health of Mark Field the proprietor. 2 of my 3 cars have Jigsaw mounts and the 3rd has standard solid mounts salvaged from a 1500FWD (marginally rarer than hens teeth) I've seen several of Shaun's mounts on various customers cars though and they are definitey the way to go!

I definitely approve of the "slightly ratty daily driver" approach, these cars were meant to be driven! And it's how all my cars are!

Steve

[hoops]

I've been impressed with my new to me 1850HL which came with GAZ adjustable shocks and 1" lowered springs (unknown source). Actually rides very well I think, its also had a lot of the suspension re-bushed, again not sure on which make as they are just plain orange but I'll have a look back through the car history file I have. The shocks are currently set to softest on the rear and two clicks from soft on the front.
With 3x adults and 1x baby in the car today, it was low but did not bottom out over some potholes and dips on some 'lovely' Oxfordshire country back roads to a local cafe.

It's on 175/60/R13 tyres hence still a bit of arch gap, on my list to replace along with the wheels when budget allows.


Triumph Dolomite 1850HL 1978 by Robert Seymour, on Flickr

Compared to what I remember from my first Sprint back ~15yrs ago which was lowered on the front but not the back (with unknown age Spax shocks), was pretty terrible as it would jump all over the place, especially if you hit a pothole in a corner, very tail happy! My old 1850HL had pretty old/worn shocks from memory but standard height springs, was too bouncy but at least 'safe' when cornering.

[Carledo]

It's quite amazing the difference decent tyres make!

My Vauxhall powered (ex) 1500FWD came with a set of Sprint wheels shod with "nothing special" 165/65/13s that were so old that I couldn't find date markings! Plenty of tread and not badly cracked but rock hard, they imparted some very twitchy, nervous handling and were unbelievably easy to lock in the wet. So I knew they had to go!

Getting another set of better condition Sprint rims without tyres a few weeks ago, finally persuaded me now was the time so I invested a couple hundred quid at "Black Circles" on 4 185/70/13s They were no make i'd heard of, but had better ratings for noise, wear and rain than much more expensive Kumho! Or just about anything else.

Now, I don't know what the rest of you do, i've always had mates in the tyre trade (or just garages) who had the equipment and would either fit tyres or let me use the kit and change them myself for about a fiver a pop. But, it seems they've all retired, gone bust or died and tyre shops now want £25 PER TYRE to fit and balance, have no concept of trade discount, bulk discount or cash in hand and no reduction for having no old cover to remove and dispose of! Which is daylight robbery in my book!

So I bought a bag of 100 tubeless valves that worked out as less than 20p each (tyre shops charge at least £3 + VAT EACH) and a 3 litre bucket of beadseal goop and fitted all 4 myself on the back lawn with nothing more than a tyre lever! I carefully lined up the red dots opposite the valves and this minor attention to detail means they don't need balancing. Road test confirmed this. I reckon i'm gonna invest in an old fashioned manual tyre changing pedestal tool, you can get a brand new one for around £150, it'll soon make it's money back! Back in 1970, when I was a first year apprentice, the first thing I was taught was changing tyres and fixing punctures on just this antiquated design of tyre changing kit, I can't believe i've come full circle and will be back, at 70 years old, doing the same job with the same stuff!

I can't believe I waited over a year to do this, the transformation is huge. The handling is back to "point and squirt", the ride is smoother and quieter (and over an inch higher, so less bottoming out) also, it LOOKS much better, with the arches nicely filled and the speedo is a lot less optimistic than it was! The speedo was never gonna be RIGHT as the gearbox has no drive ratio options and was made for a 3.7 diff with 205/60/15 tyres. I guess I should have the speedo calibrated, but it's a lot of dosh for not that much error, I always run with the satnav on anyway!

Steve

[Uncletravellingmatt]

Looks very nice, a little like mine

Before I started sorting the paint