A contender to the Silly Escort prices throne

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Staffie74 · #16 Post by **Staffie74** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:52 am

Isn't it better that an "older" car is kept on the road?. I think if someone is willing to pay that money for the car then that's their choice. If they are gonna shell out that kind of money on it then it will surely bee looked after. We all have different tastes in cars. If somone on this board had an old "Jap" micra, stuck it on Ebay and got £5000 for it would they moan about the price it reached and not take the money?. Good luck to the fella. If he can make a bit a dough and have a car that isn't made of plastic kept alive......good on him.

Edited by: <A HREF=http://p206.ezboard.com/bthetriumphdolo ... affie74</A> at: 9/2/06 10:52 am

davepoth · #17 Post by **davepoth** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:14 pm

I had a quick look... 940kgs as standard, RWD, 5 speed gearbox, and the newer toyota engines will go in with the minimum of fuss to make crazy power. I must find the video of the Corolla with a twin turbo RX7 engine fitted...

SprintMWU773V · #18 Post by **SprintMWU773V** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:23 pm

Bet people's opinions of 70's classics were the same a while back. I'm not a fan of Jap Crap but it has it's place. My sister is still driving round in an 85 Toyota startlet with no rust and never misses a beat. so they can't come up with anything original but then neither could designers of old. I like the look of the Dolomite but the BMW 1600 etc do look very similar for obvious reasons. 
 
These rare jap specials should be enjoyed and given that the Japanese do not value their motoring heritage someone has to. Still a stupid price though. I'd go for the Gorilla Twin Cam of the RWD type with 4 doors from the early to mid 80's, can't be many left now?

SMIFTER · #19 Post by **SMIFTER** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:02 pm

Good god what have I started! 
 
I wouldnt mind driving one now just to see what all the fuss is about! They are supposed to be good fun. Same for old rwd Starlets, I know Starlets have been used in oval racing with some seriously tuned Pinto and XE engines. 
 
Just out of interest, can anyone else think of any other small engined (sub 1600cc) hot hatch type car from the 80's with rear wheel drive? 
 
I'm struggling to think of any which as well as rarity is probably why they sell for so much not only compared to 60's/70's cars but also compared to their competion (things like XR3i's, Astra GTE's, Pug GTi's).

davepoth · #20 Post by **davepoth** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:12 pm

According to wikipedia at least, they were the last RWD of that size of car.

algtj · #21 Post by **algtj** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:42 pm

Last of the Talbot Sunbeams..... Sure there was a 1600 Ti (X,Y and A plate) model as well as the obvious 2.2 16V nutter version! 
Its this new craze called drifting these Corolla's are wanted for, legalised joy riding me thinks! So said car will end up in Ireland briefly, before being totalled! 
 
In the same vain there is a white one on the bay just imported, £3000 starting bid and looks a minter.

davepoth · #22 Post by **davepoth** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:39 pm

Ok, found the Video. So, 600PS and probably a bit less than the 940kg standard kerb weight... 
 
<a href="http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/dpothecary/20bsprinter.mpeg" target="top">myweb.tiscali.co.uk/dpothecary/20bsprinter.mpeg</a> 
 
Sweet.

SMIFTER · #23 Post by **SMIFTER** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:19 pm

These were way later than any Sunbeam, I think the last ones were 1987 - the Lotus was and IMO is the only Sunbeam worth bothering with although the slant 4 engines are problematic (sounds familar!). 
 
I wouldn't call drifters joy riders, the top drifters are very skilled. And we all love the feeling of hanging the back out! Its become a reckonised form of motorsport. I saw them at the NEC Autosport show year before last in a couple of Toyota Supras and ignoring the neons and bodykits they were amazing to watch - the skills were only topped by Russ Swift in a TVR. 
 
That video is hilarious - reminds me of Tarrant on TV - what the hell is will the false kung fu slap noises!

algtj · #24 Post by **algtj** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:50 am

I am sure you could squeeze an XE in a Sunbeam<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":p"> 
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> 
Yeah these were later than the Sunbeam.... 
Was joking about the joy riding! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D"> 
As you say its the neons that put me off too!

Jon Tilson · #25 Post by **Jon Tilson** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:13 am

were surely made until about 87/88. Ive seen GTE's on E plates certainly. 
 
What price a red top in a Manta? That would kick the toyotas butt cos it would handle properly. 
 
When did they stop making chevettes? was that about 81/82. They handle nicely too. 
Jonners

SMIFTER · #26 Post by **SMIFTER** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:19 pm

Good point Jonners. 
 
There was a very well sorted XE'd Chevette group 4 rally car in retro cars a couple of months ago - If the Sprint wasnt such a labour of love (and hate!) I'd probably be looking to XE one of them, or maybe a Manta A. 
 
A Manta with an XE is pretty potent. Such a shame they stopped Manta production just before the XE was wasted on the Asstra and never made a production Manta with a proper powerful engine (asides from the 200/400 specials which arent exactly affordable), even the GTE only had 110ish horses which is such a shame. Imagine if they put the 24valve 3.0 straight six from the Carlton GSi into it! (actually thats another decent handling rwd fast saloon you can buy for peanuts). 
 
The Corrolla has both a power and weight advantage over a GTE. I've heard they are pretty sharp handling cars too. 
 
I've seen very nice red top Mantas for sale for 3 to 4 grand for a very good installation with SBD throttle bodies and all the EFI tricks. Peanuts really for a car that could hit 140. 
 
The way to really do a Manta is to spend £1500 on the best 1.8 manta in the world, and £1500 on a tatty Calibra Turbo with the low compression C20LET which is basically a modifed XE engine. With a bit of buggering about you can then have a reliable 210bhp Manta with tuning potential of 350bhp+ although above 250BHP is pushing the limits of the gearbox. You'll probably see a decent return on the spares value of the Calibra as well. For about £3000 in total you can build a Manta capable of 150mph and sub 6 seconds to 60. It would probably be worth a fair bit more than it costs too. 
 
The Calibra turbo set up is on my list as a potential upgrade if I can't get the C20XE doing what I want it too. 
 
 
Oh and Al - my XE sump was previously fitted in a Sunbeam!! 

Edited by: <A HREF=http://p206.ezboard.com/bthetriumphdolo ... SMIFTER</A> at: 10/2/06 3:22 pm

SMIFTER · #27 Post by **SMIFTER** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:28 pm

I'm bored of talking Corrollas now - this is far more interesting! 
 
I wouldn't dare taunt another Manta fan <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> I humbly apologise, 115BHP it is! 
 
I remember my RWD cavalier - the CIH engine was nice and smooth and sounded good but for a 2 litre it was anything but powerful. 
 
The A series manta was always the Dog's Ball's IMO, really nice car - didn't Broadspeed do a turbo version? 
 
<img src="http://www.chez.com/tisucp/benoit/manta.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
 
Lovely! 
 
I'll see how I get on with the Manta gearbox, Its torque that kills transmission more than anything else so I wouldnt imagine a 200BHP non turbo XE lump is going to do much harm, a V6 or C20LET has a lot more torque. I thought about the Carlton/Omega box but being in a car already capable of 130mph the gearing is probably much lazier than the Getrag unit in the 1.8. Cruising speed is not as important to me as getting there quickly. Time will tell If I've dropped a bollock! 
 
I was talking about the C20LET lump tunable up to 350BHP rather than a straight XE. <a href="http://www.mvaux.com/" target="top">Mvaux/</a> do a bolt on kit to get to that sort of power (look under Calibra on the Mvaux site) but as with any engine tuning it will be at the expense of reliability which isn't as important to me as a it would be on a road car. Still with 204bhp (or 240bhp on the limited edition Calibra) its still a good unit without any upgrades. I'm thinking I'll probably not go more than 250BHP whichever way I go, I dont want to worry too much about sending the car into the scenery every time I plant the loud pedal! 
 
What am I going on about? I havent even got the XE running yet!

Edited by: <A HREF=http://p206.ezboard.com/bthetriumphdolo ... SMIFTER</A> at: 10/2/06 9:29 pm

algtj · #28 Post by **algtj** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:31 pm

Graeme, your taunting me! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":b"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> 
GT/E was rated at 115BHP but was lumbered/gifted with the CIH engine. 
Cast iron boat anchor to some! 
I am running 125 BHP on a standard bottom end with blydenstien big valve head with 285 cam, twin choke webber (ala 3.0 Crapri - see they were good for something!) and 4 branch manifold on the Ascona. 
So no compaints here. 
My GT/J (thus my name!) runs 118BHP with similar mods apart from the bigger webber off the Capri. 
If memory serves they were only rated at 97BHP standard.....? 
In my opinion I think your being over optimistic with 350+BHP for an XE and only the gearbox giving out! However I don't know how reliable you require it to be, Cosworth are good, but....... 
How good!? 
Gearbox wise the last rear drive Omega/Carlton 2.0 is the one to go for rather than the 1.8 Manta one. 
Went through two with a V6 before I cottoned on!!!! 
As for values, again I have to dissagree, I don't think even with a XE conversion you (no matter how well done) will see more than £2500. 
Did see one go for £1250! Though I grant you it wasn't running throttle boddies. 
 
I didn't mention Manta's previously as that would be kind of obvious coming from me!!!!<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D"> 
I am with you all the way on the A series Manta, beautiful cars! 
Oh thats another thing, if doing a Manta you will need the steel torque tube from the A series manta axle, rather than the alloy one from the B/C series. 
Or you could just fit the LSD axle from the Isuzu Piazza 
Turbo!!! 
Fits the Chevette too, and widens the track, perfect for group 4 arches!!!! 
 
I digress!!!! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> 
 
What was the post!!!!???? 
 
I am away for a couple of weeks Graeme so be quick with a reply, I can take it! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/roll.gif ALT=":rollin">

algtj · #29 Post by **algtj** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:05 pm

C20LET, that makes sense! 
 
Broad speed did an A series and a C series turbo. 
CIH is smooth albeit matronly in the performance stakes but I like it as its bullet proof. 
The Pinto is a damnded site easier to tune, bloody GM and there development or lack of it! 
I am building a 2.4 in the garage....... 
The nicest A series is the Black Magic though (GT/E with nice interior and black paint! 
I prefer the B series (chrome or black bumpers) cars to the last C series though as the steel was better quality. 
GT/J's are the rarest of them all (mine being the pre production car) with only 3 left, the fourth one was written off 4 months ago... 
Most came with the 2.0 CIH but as the 1.8 OHC engine became available this took over as it was seen as the poor relation engine and model (the GT/J being poverty spec compared to the SR Berlinetta) 
As the C series came on line the berlinetta was the cheap one to have and the GT/E (now injected CIH) was the daddy. 
The Manta 1.8S Badged as a GT on the side took over from the GT/J as the poverty spec model. 
The one to have is the early (Irmscher produced 2.0 CIH engined) GT/E Exclusive models as these have all the whistles and bells. Strangley they have EXEC on the logbooks though. 
The run out cars were all Exclusives being either 2.0 CIH or 1.8 OHC engined. 
The last one registered was a red 1.8 Exclusive hatchback on a G plate! 
They should have injected the 1.8 OHC earlier as that would have been a stonker in a Manta! 
Mantas are however on the lardy side! (bit like me!) 
The best bit if anyone is looking into doing a Manta/Chevette is get hold of an A series Manta torque tube its steel rather than the later alloy off the B and C series. 
Alternatively, Isuzu Piazza Turbo rear axle complete with LSD is the muts nuts on Manta's. Be aware though you would need to fit group four arches on the Chevette as it is a increases the track. 
Hmmm, makes think of a Sprint with TR7 five speed box powered Ascona...!? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... tongue.gif ALT=":b"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /devil.gif ALT=":evil"> 
But you knew all this!!!! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D"> 
 
One or two C series have been fitted with the 24V Carlton donk..... 
I know what you mean about the Carlton box.... 
The 2.0 GTE Getrag internals fit in the 1.8 casing so try that for size. 
Ive since sold the car on, so..... 
You could try the internals of the Monza GSE box. This is pure speculation though. It bolts on to a CIH so the rule of averages.....? 
Will be at Stoneleigh so hope to catch up with you there. 
<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D"> 
Al W

Edited by: <A HREF=http://p206.ezboard.com/bthetriumphdolo ... b>algtj</A> at: 11/2/06 1:17 am

SMIFTER · #30 Post by **SMIFTER** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:34 am

Apparantly the Monza 5-speed internals are a straight swap into the Manta 1.8 box and should be good for 400bhp. The problem is this seems to be common knowledge in the Manya club therefore finding one for sensible money is near impossible! 
 
The 1.8 and GTE gearbox is internally the same except for the bellhousing, so I should be alright with spares for a long time as GTE boxes are cheap and plentiful. 
 
Sorry I wont be at Stoneleigh - one year I'll have to make it a priority to go! Maybe when my car is running! 
 
G

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