Should I get Project NWL's shell dipped?

[James467]

As per my thread, Project NWL. Should I get the shell (minus the doors, bootlid and bonnet because they've been media blasted) dipped and e-coated?

I was going to have the body dipped but after speaking to a number of high end restorers, those that specialise in Italian exotica and Astons I have been strongly advised not to. I have been told that it will make the car worth more in the long term, this was by SPL when I spoke them. Personally I don't believe this, what makes the car valuable is the quality of work done during the restoration and the car's provenance, it was then I went to see the paint shop who I want to use. The guy I normally use has retired and recommended someone, I was shown a shell that was dipped and left for 6 months in a dry garage before paint, it had the e-coating or whatever they call it. The majority of the spot welded seams had started to rust. Simply they think that the shell hadn't been neutralised properly and as a result nearly all of the seams had to be cut out and re-done. I know the company used, it wasn't SPL by the way. Apparently they blamed the owner for transporting and leaving the car uncovered.

After seeing that I was thinking a big no but properly done and with a big guarantee I can see the benefits.

[soe8m]

Yes i have heard and seen the downside of the dips also. Not properly cleaned and rusting again. But media blasting can't be removed properly. When the sills and other hollow sections had their anti rust smurrie it does stick and keep moisture. My favorite is the the dip but at a trusted company.

Jeroen

[James467]

Thanks Jeroen!

I have to admit that after seeing inside the box sections in the front panels and the black coating there it would be good to replicate it.

[Toledo Man]

James, both Mike Barker and Mark Gibson have had their Sprints acid dipped and e-coated by SPL. It would be worth seeking their opinions on the process. A third alternative is to have the shell baked in an oven which makes the paint all flaky and easy to scrape off.

[Galileo]

I've heard plenty of talk for both, seems to be a subject where opinion is split. There are those that say dipping is great, gets into all of the box sections, and others that say the acid doesn't get washed out of the box sections, that it does not penetrate into rusty seams fully. Then I've heard similar about media blasting, doesn't get into hollow sections like pillars, lot's of debris left over. Seems to me that it depends on the quality of the supplier, and maybe even the type of construction.

Media blasting is tried and tested, so would you expect that the older high end restorers will stick with something proven than risk a new process on something worth tens of thousands of pounds or more, which may rust and threaten their reputation?

[Carledo]

Steel rusts! It's a fact of life, entropy must increase and all we, or anyone else, can do is fight a gallant losing battle!

Steve

[shaunroche]

It would be worth seeking out the thoughts of PaulB who had his full shell dipped and E-coated (twice!) at Pro-Strip in Nottingham.

I had my doors done there – they came back looking fabulous, but when they were fitted they had been warped by the heat and it took a good few hundred quid to get them sorted out elsewhere, so I don’t think the process is as fool proof as it could be, though a lot depends on the company doing it, and I haven’t heard any good stories about anyone yet.

After speaking with Paul, my car was media blasted and then Dinitrol has been applied to the inside of all the box sections which if the blurb is to believed, should be as good as dipping, but who knows if any of the plethora of Dinitrol, Dynax, Waxoil etc. actually work or not? They all talk a good fight.

When I next restore a car, I doubt I would dip it as I haven’t personally seen conclusive proof it does what it is supposed to do.

[James467]

I had my doors done there – they came back looking fabulous, but when they were fitted they had been warped by the heat and it took a good few hundred quid to get them sorted out elsewhere,

I wont be having the doors dipped they've gone to Elgamec to be blasted, same people who did the bonnet and boot. Bonnet and boot can't be dipped because they are sealed together (at least that's what I was told) and dipping them would make them fall apart!!

Media blasting is significantly cheaper, even when you take into account protecting the shell and wax injection. But it will need to go on a rotisserie and be rotated to get all of the media out of the various box sections!!

Cost isn't an issue here, doing the best job is.

The other thing is that apart from the front chassis rail and boot floor my car is not that rusty, even looking inside the box sections with a camera probe thing there is some surface rust but you can see the original black dip(?) coating applied at the factory. The underside has surface rust but in most places you can see the black coating where it wasn't even painted (underside will be painted!!)

Steve, you're right, the OCD itch needs scratching but is dipping this shell really that necessary simply because I dont need to get into the box sections?

[James467]

Actually thinking about it, what box sections are on a Dolomite shell?

Sills - they'll be removed and replaced anyway
Chassis rails - being replaced because they are dented!
Inner wings, front subframe mountings - only the OS is bad and that will be repaired, NS has been inspected and is in excellent condition.
Front Nose - All good, slight surface rust but black coating can be seen.
Front end panels at the top of the wings - inspected and no rust
A Posts - Good, surface rust and small hole on NS
B Posts - No rust
C Post - Rust on OS where water has been trapped between the panel and the vinyl/plastic cover
Roof - No rust, even at rear vents!!
Box section across rear floor - clear, mouse made a home in here last winter!

If there's no or little rust to kill then why dip? It seems unnecessary when I will be injecting dinitrol in all of the box sections regardless of it being dipped or not.

[soe8m]

That is not quite what i did mean. The media like sand you cannot fully get out the box sections as it does stick on earlier rust prevention muck what is sprayed in. You will never get it completely out even if there was no earlier rustprotection it is hard to clean it. This left over is becoming a new moisture trap because it does adhese the moisture. When spraying the new muck in you get a nice mix and when leaking out after spraying the leftover sand mixes with the new anti rust and can clog the way's where normally the water has to go out.

That is the downside of media blasting. It does get everywhere and is hard to take out.

Jeroen

[shaunroche]

Think you've made a good case for not dipping it then!

I would certainly Dinitrol inside the cavity where the windscreen wiper spindles poke through and then inside the A posts and the chassis box section that run either side of the engine, but then all I've done every cavity I could find including the ones inside the car that aren't especially well known for rusting anyway! Oh and inside the doors and bonnet and bootlid!

[SprintMWU773V]

I had mine liberally sprayed with rust proofer when it was painted. Not sure what they used, think it was a VW/Audi product. Either way it got into all the right places. It's an easy job to do yourself albeit smelly and messy. Don't so it without a compressor though, the cans are good but a compressor atomises the product better and it's far better that way. There's no advantage in filling it solid, you want a nice light coating that covers any exposed areas. I've done a couple of MX5's and half a can or so was sufficient for the chassis rails and sills. Top tip is to put the can in warm water to keep soft and then choose a nice warm day to spray.

It is possible to drill additional holes in the car to access the jacking point areas which cannot be reached with the existing holes.

[Galileo]

Thinking about it, if I was to do a bare metal resto, I think I would get it media blasted, probably by the bloke just north of me (Huntingdon) at Easton, and then get it up to the people at Rustbuster just a bit further up in Spalding.

Is that fact or opinion? Probably mostly the latter with a little bit of the former and a dollop of gut instinct...

[Ron1966]

I believe James that any original paint you have on your car that has not rusted after the best part of 40 years I personally would leave well alone.

[James467]

Thanks everyone for their input!

There is of course Soda Blasting which I am very interested in at the moment. In theory that should get over the problems that Jeroen was talking about with the media getting into the box sections.