head gasket

[new to this]

we are tiring to remove the cylinder head on a 1850

So far inlet manifold removed
Exhaust manifold removed
All the bolts came out of the head okay
1 Stud came out okay,but the other 4 studs all broke

What im think is putting rope down 2 cylinders to hopefully lift the head enough,would it cause any more damage as the timing chain sprocket is disconnected from the head ?

any other ideas anyone ?

Dave

[marshman]

Remove the camshaft, that will ensure all the valves are closed and there will be no danger of any of the valves getting bent.

When you do it alternate which two cylinders you put the rope down to spread the pressure. To be honest with four broken studs you might struggle unless the studs broke because they were seized in the block.

Roger

[MIG Wielder]

Hi Dave, I still have the "1850 Headmaster" cylinder head removal tool as per D.M. of about a year ago..
P.M. on way.
Tony.

[jeffers]

Hey Tony,

That's a mean looking piece of equipment

Briefly, what's the principal behind it? (I'm sure I must have read it somewhere but it escapes me atm)

It's my head we're trying to remove btw.

Cheers
Jeff

[cleverusername]

I managed to get the head off the Sprint no problem, every bolt and stud moved. I suspect that was due to the oil that had somehow got on the threads.

So would it be a good idea for 1850 owners to oil the studs when refitting? Or what that cause issues trying to torque it up?

[MIG Wielder]

Hi Jeff / Dave,
The 1850 Headmaster is an 1850 ( and TR7) cylinder head removal tool for where the standard removal techniques have not worked.
It is based on the SOC "Head Honcho" and the TR7( USA group) designs, using the best features of both and improved where necessary.
An error on the drawings means the originals graunch on the timing chain case. This has been corrected here. The metal thickness has been increased to 13mm. A gusset has been added to the rear plate to increase rigidity.
The forcing bolt size has been increased from M10 to M16 and 2 flavours of forcing bolts are supplied.

Target head removal is as follows.
* Take care lifting it, the whole unit is very heavy.
* Remove exhaust manifold.
* Remove inlet manifold.
* Set 1 / 4 on firing stroke at TDC and separate the camshaft chain wheel from the cam as per the manual.
* Remove the camshaft.
* It is assumed that the stuck studs have been sitting in penetrating oil beforehand.
* Initially remove the 5 x M16 forcing bolts from the 1850HM and grease them well.
* Use the supplied exhaust manifold bolts to loosely bolt the vertical section to the target head.
* Use the supplied nuts and washers to loosely bolt the horizontal section of the 1850HM to the camshaft securing studs. The washers are to clear the unthreaded part of the studs.
* Gradually tighten the 7 exhaust manifold bolts and the 10 camshaft nuts and washers and torque them to the specified torque. Check it is all sitting square on the target head.
* There are 2 sets of five M16 forcing bolts supplied. 5 are counterbored to fit stuck but unbroken studs and 5 are turned down to go through the head stud orifices for sheared off studs or to do the 2nd stage lift. The special middle forcing bolts are colour coded in red.
* If one or more studs have actually been extracted then it is recommended that they are greased and then replaced to get an even lifting force.
* Using a quality ring spanner, the 5 forcing bolts can now be gradually and evenly tightened down. At which point the head should start to lift.
* When the countersunk forcing bolts have bottomed out, they can be removed and changed for the turned down bolts to get even more lift.
* Remove the 1850HM. ( Heavy ! )
* Pull the target head off the engine. It may be necessary to use wooden wedges to complete the lift or to push and pull the head up and down a few times to finally remove it.

HTH,
Tony.

[new to this]

I managed to get the head off the Sprint no problem, every bolt and stud moved. I suspect that was due to the oil that had somehow got on the threads.

So would it be a good idea for 1850 owners to oil the studs when refitting? Or what that cause issues trying to torque it up?

The design of the sprint head means oil is always over the studs,on the 1850 there exposed to the elements,when we get it ready to go back on the car i was going to use ceramic grease on the studs.

Dave

[new to this]

Tony

PM sent

thanks Dave

[new to this]

Remove the camshaft, that will ensure all the valves are closed and there will be no danger of any of the valves getting bent.

When you do it alternate which two cylinders you put the rope down to spread the pressure. To be honest with four broken studs you might struggle unless the studs broke because they were seized in the block.

Roger

Roger

Thanks for the idea about the camshaft,have you used the rope idea before,

Dave

[marshman]

Not personally to push a head off, but I have read of others that have, some with success and others without (mainly on the Stag Forum). I have used rope down the bores to hold valves in place whilst I have removed valve springs to check for loose valve guides.

Roger

[soe8m]

Only the first stud is in the oil at a sprint.

Jeroen

[jeffers]

Jeroen

And that was the one which came out fine in my 1850.

Are they any different?

Jeff

[soe8m]

Jeroen

And that was the one which came out fine in my 1850.

Are they any different?

Jeff

Yes. At a sprint the oilfeed of the camshaft goes around the first stud and that one stays oily. An 1850 has a seperate bore as oilfeed.

Jeroen

[Carledo]

I think the point about the Sprint head studs being oily is not so much that they have a positive oil feed (they don't, except the front one as Jeroen so rightly says) but that they sit UNDER the cam cover where oil is (hopefully) everpresent rather than those on the 1850 which are OUTSIDE the cam cover and exposed to the elements. In the short term, I doubt this would make a difference, in the long term, it obviously DOES make a difference! I can't EVER remember having more than momentary problems removing Sprint head studs, even on long disused engines (so long as the cam cover is still in place) 1850s (and TR7s) OTOH can be a right PITA and foil the most excessive attempts to remove the head! That "Headmaster" gadget is Victorian engineering at it's finest, it needs to be!

Steve

[cliftyhanger]

I can vouch for the Headmasters effectiveness. It pulled the head on my TR7 powered toledo with no issues.
OK, my car may not have the engine at the correct height (I modified my subframe, made engine mount brackets etc) but managed to get the head up enough to be able to cut the studs with ease. If I had "played" with working the head up/down I may have been able to unscrew the studs, but I was prepared for DEFCON 1 and had new studs ready to fit.

So the question is.... with the engine in the car, can an 1850 head be removed with the studs left in place?