TR7 Toledo: Saab radiator & Volvo 850 expansion tank fitted

[Bitsa]

Despite the gearbox mount bushing now being right way round, the end of the gearbox is catching on the passenger side of the transmission tunnel. There were some shims on the drivers side engine mount, so we fitted some new mounts I had without the shims. This did not fix the issue. We swapped the part of the mount that goes into the gearbox, wondering if the bolt was bent. This also did not fix it. So we are a bit stumped.

We are pretty sure the issue is at the gearbox mount, not the engine mount, as the gearbox sits better when off the mount.I believe the tr7 engine is at a different angle to the sprint engine, which may be part of the problem. The sprint and 1850 gearbox mounts looked the same and seem to have the same part number the the catalogue.

Anybody else had this issue?

Edit: Got the drums off, removing the cylinder mount allowed enough movement to pry them off. Actually doesn’t look to bad inside. Will need bits but the backplate and drum looks good.

[naskeet]

Ideal working conditions for Scottish winter.

Are those LED headlamps by any chance!?! When I was researching substitute right-hand drive, 7 x 5¼ inch rectangular LED headlamps a few years ago, the listed price was about £500 per pair and no indication of how one would replace individual LEDs if any failed or got damaged!

I well remember Scottish winters, having resided in Lochee, Dundee during 1956 to 1965; living in a virtually-unheated, uninsulated, 200+ year old, former stone-quarry cottage (only heating was a portable paraffin heater in the lounge, plus the gas stove and gas-fired hot-water geyser in the kitchen). Walking the long distance through snow or slush to Ancrum Road primary school, wearing regulation school-uniform short trousers, was an experience I am unlikely to forget!

I would be extremely wary of driving a "high-speed" rally car painted BLACK or any low-visibilty colour under any weather or lighting conditions!

You might want to peruse the following post:

Board index » The Triumph Dolomite Club » The Public Bar - General Chat » 2023 Mongol Rally - 20,000 Miles from Bristol to Mongolia... and back! Triumph 1300 FWD

https://forum.triumphdolomite.co.uk/vie ... =5&t=37238

Posted on Tuesday 29th November 2022 @ 7:18 pm

https://forum.triumphdolomite.co.uk/vie ... 15#p344656

Optimal Bodywork Colour

[Bitsa]

Are those LED headlamps by any chance!?! When I was researching substitute right-hand drive, 7 x 5¼ inch rectangular LED headlamps a few years ago, the listed price was about £500 per pair and no indication of how one would replace individual LEDs if any failed or got damaged!

I well remember Scottish winters, having resided in Lochee, Dundee during 1956 to 1965; living in a virtually-unheated, uninsulated, 200+ year old, former stone-quarry cottage (only heating was a portable paraffin heater in the lounge, plus the gas stove and gas-fired hot-water geyser in the kitchen). Walking the long distance through snow or slush to Ancrum Road primary school, wearing regulation school-uniform short trousers, was an experience I am unlikely to forget!

I would be extremely wary of driving a "high-speed" rally car painted BLACK or any low-visibilty colour under any weather or lighting conditions!

Yes they are LED lights, but they certainly weren't £500, I think more like £50. They are for a XJ Jeep (I think) and were fitted by the previous owner. I definitely wouldn't recommend them - I think a decent set of h4 bulbs would be better, and I've got slight concerns they may blind other drivers as I'm not convinced that they are putting out the correct beam pattern. There may be better XJ LED lights available if you shop around, and I believe the fitment was relatively easy. I'll be fitting h4's in the original bowls soon.

Having had a few LEDs die in the tail light of my wife's Peugeot, I understand that a certain percentage of dead LED's is acceptable (perhaps not with headlights) to pass MOT and unless you were able to source the correct LEDs and solder them in its typically easier to replace the whole unit.

This as the advisory (not fail) we got, I replaced the unit anyway.
Advisory notice item(s)
Nearside Rear position lamp(s) has light sources not illuminating, but not more than 50% (1.1.A.3b)

I'm pretty close to Lochee - I'm in the West End of Dundee. Ancrum Primary School is still going, but the kids are allowed to wear trousers these days!

The black paint was a cheap solution for the previous owners of the car as it needed painted cheaply, but I'll repaint it at some point. I was chatting to an old colleague who painted his VW camper with spray cans and got a pretty decent result, so I think I'll give that a go as a professional respray is, as with the previous owners, out of my budget. It would look pretty good in Sulfur Yellow, but I might go for something a little more subtle but more visible that matt black! I'm not going to be doing anything too extreme, and for road regularity stuff during the day I'd be running dipped beams for visibility, particularly on single track roads.

[xvivalve]

If you are using Sprint subframe and engine mounts and have the plates that the mounts fit to the engine through on the correct sides, the block should be at the same angle as a Sprint block.

Can you take a photo of the two engine mounts?

[Bitsa]

If you are using Sprint subframe and engine mounts and have the plates that the mounts fit to the engine through on the correct sides, the block should be at the same angle as a Sprint block.

Can you take a photo of the two engine mounts?

Unfortunately not, I’m using what I think is an 1850 subframe. I used new polyflex 1300/1500 engine mounts. This may have been inadvisable - I believe they are dimensionally the same as 1850 ones but stiffer - I thought this maybe have been a benefit to the bigger engine. This will be adding to the issue, but not the whole problem as I’ll explain.

We’ve somewhat fixed the issue. Thinking they were the same I reused the gearbox mount (the big metal bit that bolts to the body) that was already on the car, not the one that came with the sprint box. The parts catalogue shows this part for the 1850 and sprint to be 218519 for both cars. Inspecting them today the existing one was different, - the hole for the bush is offset in the one that was on the car but not the one that came with the box.

Fitting the sprint mount meant that the end of the box no longer touches, but is still offset due to having an 1850 subframe. With the mount removed it didn’t catch the tunnel. Once I’ve got the clutch bled and gearbox filled I’ll start it up and see if it hits. If it does, I might try shimming the engine mounts, at least just to get it driving to put it into storage while I find a sprint subframe.


Old mount


Comparison


"New" Mount

[Bitsa]

Stupid question time: The club clutch slave line came with two copper washers. Do these go between the cylinders and lije end piece, or between the line and end the piece that goes into the cylinder? And is it required? Don’t think there were washers on the original line.

[xvivalve]

Stupid question time: The club clutch slave line came with two copper washers. Do these go between the cylinders and lije end piece, or between the line and end the piece that goes into the cylinder? And is it required? Don’t think there were washers on the original line.

They go between the cylinders and the end union and are recommended

[Bitsa]

Thanks, it is connected in but has no fluid in yet to it'll be a quick job to take it apart and put them in.

[Bitsa]

Clutch bled, ended up taking the washers off again as we were getting leaks. First time using an easibleed, what a difference. Clutch pedal feels great, shifter action is so much better with the sprint box than the 1850 one. Offset on the knob doesn't bother me.

We've ran the engine, it sits nice and solid in the new mounts with minimal movement. If there is 10mm of gap on the tight side of the prop, it's moving 1-2mm max. New engine mounts are smooth aside from at idle, where the car properly shakes. If the tach is reading right idle is at ~1500 rpm and has always been a bit lumpy and shook at idle but this was previously taken up by the wobbly engine mounts. I'm taking it over to a friend who knows carbs better than me to check that out at some point. It was on axle stands on the subframe so that probably made it rougher.

Hoping for no issues with the axle swap, mounting hardware at the back looks brand new.

[xvivalve]

Clutch bled, ended up taking the washers off again as we were getting leaks.

Useful to know. I'll omit them from the 'kit'.

Congratulations on your progress; the book states warm idle should be between 600 and 900, though I find the upper part of the range better

[Bitsa]

That’s handy to know. Not sure if the rev counter is correct - it sounds a bit slow for 1500 rpm. Friend has a sun tuner so that should help - and it’s getting a new rev counter.

I wonder if the washers may be useful in some cases, or if a slimmer one would work. I don’t think my threads were properly sealing with the washer in place and the washer wasn’t sealing against the face on the cylinder.

[Jake]

This is a really interesting thread to me: but it's lacking the info that i REALLY need: Do you think the TR7 engine is a worthwhile transplant into the Tolly?
There's not a lot of spares available in Finland, but there is a TR7 engine/box/axle i could get. I've just this week upgraded my 1500 to twin carb, and im looking forward to see what difference that makes, but what are your thoughts? Do you like the engine? any advantages/disadvantages? Some people ive heard say its too heavy to be worth it.
Appreciate a second opinion!

[Bitsa]

The short answer is yes! It's over ten years since I drove a 1300 or 1500 powered Toledo, so a direct comparison is hard - I bought this with the tr7 engine already in.

My 1300 was on a single carb it could keep up with modern traffic, but motorway journeys were a bit tiresome. It would do 70mph relatively happily, 80 was achievable as long as no hills got in the way, and more than that involved flooring it and hoping for the best. It could probably have been tuned better though. My dad had twin carbs on both the 1300 then 1500 engines and it felt punchier but I never had a proper drive in it.

With the TR7 engine in, I wouldn't describe it as fast by modern standards but it goes pretty well, about as quick as your average modern car, I'd say 0-60 in about ten seconds kind of performance. Enough to make somebody in a modern car put in a bit of effort to keep up, and enough for overtaking on single carriageways. I've not measured it but the TR7 did it in about ten, so that sounds about right. It cruises pretty effortlessly at 70 or 80, although noise wise 70 is more comfortable. It's still pulling well at 90 (145kph). In the Toledo package that feels pretty decent. It's much torquier, using revs is an option not a necessity. I've driven it with four passengers and I couldn't tell much difference, you would in a 1300! There is something nice about zinging along a little engine, which I slightly miss, but a big engine in a little car is a lovely experience too!

In terms of weight, it doesn't seem to have affected handling - I've no concerns about throwing it into a corner. I've no idea of the weight difference between the engines to be honest. I'd assume it weighs about as a sprint engine, so at least the chassis is designed for that kind of engine weight. The TR7 is about 105 HP I think, I'm not sure what a decently tuned 1300 or 1500 can get to - I think the 1300 can put out 90 if tuned right? Personally I prefer the idea of a highly strung 1300, but seeing as this car came with the TR7 lump in it I'm not going to complain - having looked into getting that kind of power out I think it's more hassle than just fitting a bigger engine.

If I had a 1300 or 1500 in that state of tune I probably wouldn't fit a TR7 engine. On the other hand I'm not going to take out the TR7 engine, put in a load of work tuning a smaller engine just to have less power either. Starting from a standard 1300 or 1500 I'm not sure which avenue would be better - the parts availability in Finland will complicate both options. I'd imagine non-standard fitment of a unmodified engine will be less hassle than the original engine in a high state of tune.

I might be wrong on this, but I don't think the TR7 axle will fit the Toledo. The gearbox may not either. I think most swaps use an 1850 gearbox (that's what mine had) or a Sprint one. I've heard the 1850 box is a bit weak for the 2 litre engine (this is backed up by mine being a bit broken and being replaced!), but I think you have the option of using the Toledo axle. For a sprint box you'd a prop, axle and adaptor plate (not a custom one, it's on the sprints). And a gearbox tunnel. Once my swap is complete I could put together a list of all the little things you may need - it's been pretty straightforward, and would have been more straightforward if I knew everything I know now! If I remember I'll post the list up here covering the gearbox swap.

--

Update: Axle is in, just need to fit brakes, prop and trans tunnel. Cylinders off the sprint axle looked gubbed, and I turned a brake union into a spiky oval trying to get it off one of the Toledo cylinders. A place in Penicuik had new cylinders (£20!), rear flexi, 3/8 unions and pipe so that's a job for tomorrow. I'll have a go at rebuilding both cylinders at some point in case these Quinton Hazell ones are rubbish.

I bought a new set of brake pins and springs, but stupidly I didn't get sprint ones. I'm hoping to bodge something workable together temporarily with the rusty sprint bits to get it moving, as I want to put it in storage on Saturday and I won't get a sprint set in time.

I've also got wheel bolts coming, as it must be a late sprint axle as it has larger studs. Never realised that, so were were quite confused as to why the wheel bolts didn't fit I've got some fuel pipe coming too, as I'm slightly concerned the larger sprint diff will catch the fuel pipe in it's current location.

[xvivalve]

This is a really interesting thread to me: but it's lacking the info that i REALLY need: Do you think the TR7 engine is a worthwhile transplant into the Tolly?
There's not a lot of spares available in Finland, but there is a TR7 engine/box/axle i could get. I've just this week upgraded my 1500 to twin carb, and im looking forward to see what difference that makes, but what are your thoughts? Do you like the engine? any advantages/disadvantages? Some people ive heard say its too heavy to be worth it.
Appreciate a second opinion!

Fin is correct, the TR7 rear axle has a wider track than the Toledo/Dolomite axle; arches MIGHT resolve this with the wings beneath being cut away, but I can't be certain. Jon Tilson successfully ran 1850 axles with TR7 engines though and late 1500/1850 cars shared the same axles...

With regard the TR7 gearbox, if it is the 4 speed, it should fit ok as it is very similar to the 1850/Marina style of 'box. The 5 speed LT77 'box can be made to fit (I have one in the Quicksprint) but it requires the bell housing to be cut away on the underside

[cliftyhanger]

This is a really interesting thread to me: but it's lacking the info that i REALLY need: Do you think the TR7 engine is a worthwhile transplant into the Tolly?
There's not a lot of spares available in Finland, but there is a TR7 engine/box/axle i could get. I've just this week upgraded my 1500 to twin carb, and im looking forward to see what difference that makes, but what are your thoughts? Do you like the engine? any advantages/disadvantages? Some people ive heard say its too heavy to be worth it.
Appreciate a second opinion!

If you want the definitive answer to single v twin carbs, look at this article p 8-14
https://www.tssc.org.uk/tssc/uploaded_f ... 201998.pdf

Summary, single, tiny bit less power, slightly better economy. (all done by properly set up standard car, correctly tuned on rolling road.)

I had a tuned 1500 toledo. 91bhp. Changed to a TR7 engine, similar power (it lost the tr7 manifold, had to use the 1850 log one, which saps a bit of power) TR7 engine streets ahead in terms of drivability, torque and better on fuel. And unlike the 1500, it didn't need the crank replacing at regular intervals.