TR7 Toledo: Saab radiator & Volvo 850 expansion tank fitted

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Bitsa
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Re: TR7 Toledo: Some (don't) like it hot.

#61 Post by Bitsa »

Rad fitment 

Initial fitment was using the plastic flanges on the radiator onto the mounts for the horn and battery box. Passenger side was via a new hole in the flange, drivers side involved a random bit of metal (I think it was previously an exhaust mount) that I planned to replace with a larger piece if I kept it there. 

This required minimum bodywork modification, just a flattening of the flange on the passengers side. In this fitment and the later one I offset the radiator to the passenger side, my reasoning being for easier fitment of the bottom hose and to leave for room for airflow to the carbs. I was quite keen on this but there was no room for a decent sized fan behind the rad. I could almost fit my existing fan in front of the radiator, in fact with a little adjustment I would have got it in I reckon.

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Initial radiator fitment using plastic flanges.

I considered persisting with this option but after a trip to Wickes I found some suitable brackets that would allow it to move further forward. For this I had to flatten or remove the entire lower lip. Constrained by access and tools I had to hand, I cut the corners and flattened it using a mole grip. It looks rubbish, but it’ll do till next time the engine is out. I’d rather not cut the lip off - it could be reinstated by bending it back and welding the two cuts. I’m hoping to bend the lip to face forward to retain strength, possibly getting the corners welded with a filler piece. My only concern with this is creating a muck trap, so I’ll try and keep it clean if I do that. 

For brackets I used some right angle straps, bolted to the existing radiator support locations. The drivers side lined up radiator end tank, but the passenger side was across the body of the radiator, meaning it didn’t sit level. To fix this I added a cross bar, which is positioned so that the tabs on the body/tank joins sit just in front, helping hold it in place. 

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Mounting brackets Mk2.

My initial brackets were OK but a bit weak, with a bit of flex if you pulled down so I think with water in it would have sagged over time. While I planned to also support the weight from the top, I’d like good bottom support too. Later I realised some of this flex was actually the front panel of the car, which flattening the flange wouldn't have helped. 

Another trip to Wickes and purchased some stronger brackets with gussets. Being shorter these are only fitted to the bottom support mounts. I have drilled some new holes for a second bolt further up too. I had to use longer bolts on the existing mounts, as the mount is inset into the body slightly. Of course by welding up some custom mounts you could make these even more robust, but have neither the kit or skills to weld so random bits from Wickes it is. The mounts are solid, the only flex is from the panel they are mounted to, reinstating the lip facing forwards would help this. 

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Mounting brackets Mk3.

At this point I had trimmed most of the plastic off the radiator, but had left two round tabs near the top. Wickes angle brackets onto those tabs mount the radiator vertically and horizontally. I had to modify these to fit by bending them on a vice. Two mount into new hole from above, two into an existing holes from in front. The passenger side vertical mount wasn’t great, so I remade it from some bar material, I’m not happy with this either but it works for now. I painted the mounts black with the exception of the one I'm not happy with. 

On the passenger side I have a cotter pin into a hole drilled in the plastic, I could put on the drivers side too but given how the mounts work I don’t think it is necessary.

The bottom is just sitting and not bolted in, so I drilled some holes in the bottom lip of the rad to put cable ties through. I could make a bracket, but this will do for now. 

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Mounting brackets Mk3 radiator bottom tabs shown.

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Mounting brackets Mk3, bottom bracket painted and in place.

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Top mounting brackets drivers side.

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Top mounting brackets passenger side - forgot to get a good finished photo. This was before I trimmed the end off the top hose connection.

The fan was bolted to the top lip of the radiator and secured with cable ties with a washer to protect the fins on the lower side. A wee bit of tape prevents air being sucked from above the radiator. The battery actually fits better with the new radiator than the old, smaller one. 
Last edited by Bitsa on Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bitsa
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Re: TR7 Toledo: Some (don't) like it hot.

#62 Post by Bitsa »

Oil Cooler 

Perhaps foolishly I had bought the rad with the built in oil cooler. I started to realise this oil cooler is probably not the best option if I wanted one, and out of the cost of a kit a proper cooler itself isn’t that expensive - it's the stuff to fit it to the engine. 

So what to do with it? I could just leave it disconnected, or I could somehow utilise it. I considered running one of the expansion tank lines through it, but that seemed superfluous. At one point I considered using it as a heated screen wash tank, but given screen wash is quite flammable it didn’t seem sensible to have it that hot. One option would be to see if I could break the wall between the oil and water, and then utilise both the extra capacity and the two threaded ports, temp sensor(s?) and expansion tank seem useful. 

A test of the capacities gave me 1.7l for water and 0.1l for oil, although as it was on its back that may have been low. I think the oil cooler is entirely contained in the drivers side end tank.

Even if I’m off by 50% on the oil capacity, the oil is not taking up that much volume, so I was tempted just to leave it alone, and not use it for anything. After mulling it over I decided not to be a scaredy cat and drill it out so I could use the threaded holes for a temp sensor. Using washers to prevent me going to deep I drilled out 10mm holes in the oil tank via the threaded ports, plus a 5mm one at and angle in the top port at the top of the oil tank to prevent air getting trapped. I then gave it a thorough flush to get the swarf out. 

Hoses 

I had initially hoped to use the existing hoses, but the top hose just didn’t quite fit, and the bottom hose was lower than the old radiator so needed a bend to get past the engine mount.

I also wanted to move the expansion tank connection to the bottom radiator hose, with the fiesta rad it had been attached to the inlet side of the radiator which I gather is not good for the pump. 

For the top hose I used a 45 degree 32 to 34mm leg, plus a 34mm 90 degree leg. The top connector on the radiator was a bit long, so I cut off about an inch, otherwise the pipework would have been against the head 

I had planned on just using a straight connector between these, but when cutting I accidentally cut on the wrong side of the hose clamp I was using as guide. What’s it they say about measuring twice, cutting once? I had a 34mm sensor adaptor which bridged it nicely, and it gives me another option for sensor placement, and a point I can connect a 14mm hose connector for flushing / pressure testing. 

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Pressure testing

For the bottom hose I used a 45 degree 34-32mm leg, cut quite short. This goes into a 32-25-32 connector for the expansion tank fitment, then a long leg 32mm 90 degree pipe up to the engine. I forgot to take a pic of this I'll edit that in later.

The expansion tank hose is attached to the passenger side bottom radiator mount (I left these long for a reason) then up to the tank, I left the hose a bit long too. This allows me to move the expansion tank out of the way to access the spark plugs, and to get some extra head for bleeding. 

The top of the radiator has a 12mm spout, I considered piping this into the expansion tank, but a  cap will suffice and can be removed for bleeding. 

The unused m14 holes (top hose, bottom oil cooler connector) are plugged with sump plugs, but give me more options for sensor locations if the top oil cooler one doesn’t work out. I considered using the bottom oil cooler port for the main expansion tank connection, but was worried about constricting flow. 

Expansion tank 

I bought a Volvo 850 expansion tank, and having an anti roll bar fitted this seemed like the best place for it. My first mounting bracket was woeful, but I found some c clamps which along with yet more Wickes angle brackets gave me a height adjustable mount, with final fixing being with short bungee cords. A fancier mount would be very doable. While it is in the way of the plugs, it is quickly removable for access with the pipes being long enough to allow this. I've had the front and rear plugs out since and it wasn't in the way. 

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Expansion Tank
Bitsa
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Re: TR7 Toledo: Some (don't) like it hot.

#63 Post by Bitsa »

Testing

I had a few leaks initially, but a tightening of hoses and using better clips sorted that. I still have a little leak where the line goes into the top of the radiator tank, I need a better clip or a slightly smaller diameter pipe. 

On the test drive, with a 74 degree temp switch in the top of the radiator the fan came on at about 95 degrees at the engine, and off at about 85. I could fit at lower temp one (if I could find one) but I think 95 is fine considering I also have the fan on a switch. 95 will do in case I forget to switch it on manually. Fitting a lower temp one would have the fan and the 88 degree flow thermostat fighting each other as it cooled. 

When siting stationary with the fan on in high teens outside temperature it dropped nicely from 97 degrees. When I had the 74 degree flow stat in it kept dropping to below 80. When driving it quickly got up to about 83, then took a while to get into the high 80s. I've not been out for a longer drive yet, but it sees to sit at about 86 degrees. I think this is decent, but please let me know if not. Same with the fan coming on at 95 ish, I think that's safe for a TR7 engine but I'm not sure. 

I also changed the engine and gearbox oil. Next start there was an awful screeching coming from the engine bay. A bit of listening and poking lead me to the new and terrible carb mounts having failed. That explains the high idle I was struggling with. I refitted the old ones - they were cracked outside but fine inside, and used red gasket paste to seal it properly - I think the rear gasket for these is NLA, and the front one was a terrible fit.  Starting again it refused to idle despite not messing with anything else - I obviously had a massive air leak when I last tuned it. Retuned with a colourtune and balanced it ran great and probably faster that it's ever been. Tune is good enough for now but could do with improving.

If this would be helpful to anyone else I can add some more info and post it in the How I Fixed It section, might be a good starting point for somebody to do a better job than me!
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Re: TR7 Toledo: Saab radiator & Volvo 850 expansion tank fitted

#64 Post by new to this »

Nice write up on fitting the radiator, Ive got the same radiator same colour hoses :D :D
How have you connected your header tank in to the radiator the bottom connection ?
Dave
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